Lose The Veil Honey!

[acarpe3448]

I know it's not flight related but I just heard about this lady that is suing to keep her veil on for her Florida Drivers License picture. I can't help it, this really pisses me off. Any thaughts, is this going to be a new liberty for the United States. Freedom of religon taken to the point that male terrorists can get a drivers license just by dressing as a woman and suing for an ID. This could get really scarry. I say if she wants to keep the veil on she has 2 choices:

1. Ride on the bus or take a cab
2. Get our of our country and go drive in your own country.

 

[chperplt]

I vote for #2

 

[midlifeflyer]

I agree. In fact, I think that everyone should have to have their drivers license photos taken naked. You wouldn't want some right wing religious fanatic dressing like a woman so that he get into an abortion clinic by pretending to be a potential patient and cause trouble, would you?

 

[Capn Lucky]

I think its funny that this woman wants a license in the first place because some interpretations of islamic law say that she shouldn't be driving at all. Yet, she cites islamic law as her reason for rufusing to be photographed.

IMHO

 

[Timebuilder]

...not only that point, but an attorney on CoutTV just pointed out that as a Muslim she must make a journey to Mecca at least once, and as an American, she cannot be granted a US passport without being photographed!

 

[daddysquared]

I can't resist......

Perhaps she simply doesn't want to take off the veil because she is ashamed of her summer teeth (some 'r here, some 'r there.)

 

[cessna_driver2]

...not only that point, but an attorney on CoutTV just pointed out that as a Muslim she must make a journey to Mecca at least once, and as an American, she cannot be granted a US passport without being photographed!

Ah but she'll just take her passport photo with the veil on. Isn't a viel obstruction to vision for a driving. Should that be illegal to dirve with a full vail on...

just .02

 

[csmith]

I think its funny that this woman wants a license in the first place because some interpretations of islamic law say that she shouldn't be driving at all. Yet, she cites islamic law as her reason for rufusing to be photographed.

IMHO

Not to mention that when permitted to drive under islamic law, they must be photographed with their veil off...according to CNN.

Some things just make you shake your head

 

[Timebuilder]

Ah but she'll just take her passport photo with the veil on

The attorney said that a picture with a veil is not permitted for passports.

 

[jdog78]

The woman has a mugshot from a couple years ago when she was arrested for assault or something like that. She was not veiled in that picture.
Since a driver's license is a means of picture identification, she should have a picture of her entire unveiled face. Millions of other American Muslims seem to have no problem with it.
I'm really sick of people whining every time they feel their constitutional rights are being infringed. They're simply whining because they think they're special and deserve special treatment. Give me a farking break...

john

 

[carrie22]

Besides, getting a Driver's Lic. is NOT a constitutional right....it's a privilege.

 

[jergar999]

I agree, driving is a privilege, and if you want to drive you need to make information available so that you can be held accountable in the event of an accident. If her religion prevents her from being seen then it prevents her from driving. If the state caves on this one, next week child molesting will be a religion and pedophiles across the country will sue the government for violating their civil rights.

 

[jergar999]

Yowch!! I almost forgot to add a sarcastic comment. She's only pushing the issue so her little sister can use her ID to go the liquor store and singles bar.

That's better.

 

[A Squared]

Apparently there are 2 muslim women who are suing FLorida; Najat Tamim-Muhammad, a Morroccan immigrant, and Sultaana Freeman, a US born converted Muslim.

Suppose that your religion demanded ritual human sacrifice? (some did, at one time) Should you be exempt from murder laws?

 

[Av8trxx]

"I don't unveil ... because it would be disobeying my Lord," said Sultaana Freeman, 35.

Freeman, a convert to Islam previously known as Sandra Kellar, wore her veil for the photo on the Florida driver's license she obtained after moving to the state in 2001.

Nine months later, she received a letter from the state warning that it would revoke her license unless she returned for a photo with her face uncovered.

Freeman claims that her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed.

Her attorneys argued that state officials didn't care that she wore a veil in the photo until after the Sept. 11 attacks, an allegation the state denies.

"This is about religious liberty. It's about whether this country is going to have religious diversity," said Howard Marks, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail argued that an identifiable photo on a license is a matter of public safety.

"It's the primary method of identification in Florida and the nation," he said. "I don't think there can be any doubt there is a public-safety interest."

Yeah right! Like she would have converted if she had to live and be treated like the women in Afghanistan! She should thank her lucky stars Americans don't treat lawbreakers like they do in the middle east....

 

[NEDude]

The Supreme Court has ruled that religious freedom is not a license to do what you will in the name of religion. A few years back they ruled against an indian tribe that used peyote (or some other form of narcotic) in religious ceremonies. Even though it had been a part of their culture long before the United States was founded.

I think, but not sure, that they tend to use two things when judging religious freedom issues 1) Is it widely practiced and recognized, and 2) Can it place others in harm. Given that most muslim women in America do not veil their faces, you could very well argue that veiling is not widely accepted in the muslim community in the U.S. And as has been pointed out, driving with a veil could affect your vision and thus your ability to drive safely - placing others around you in harm.

I think given that most muslim women who drive around the world do not do so with a veil, her argument is a weak one. In most muslim cultures where veiling is as strict as she seems to interpret, women do not have ANY rights - not even driving.

Frankly I do not care what happens in this case. But I do find it disgusting that everytime a person doesn't get their way, they claim a Constitutional violation and run to the ACLU. The Constitution does not guarentee you total freedom to do anything you please.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

BFD! I had to renew my license while overseas so it doesn't have a picture on it. It's still a drivers license, I just can't use it for the purposes of showing a photo ID. Much ado about nothing.

There does, however, seem to be inconsistancies on both sides. Either the state has never cared about the veil in the past and now wants to enforce new rules, or Muslim women have been taking normal photos in the past and these women choose not to. Either way, no photo means no photo ID.

BTW, does anyone actually know what the requirements are for passports? This can't be the first time this issue has ever been raised.

 

[jjbiv]

From http://travel.state.gov/pptphotos/faqs.html:

"Include headpieces if worn daily for religious purposes; they should not obscure or cast shadows on the eyes or any other part of the face."

joe

 

[Chunk]

As far as the "ride the bus in her own country" remark...

She's an American by birth. She's a moron, but an American moron.

She should ride the bus in this country.

To give you an idea of her thought process, chew on this fact....she converted to Islam after 9/11!

 

[NEDude]

To give you an idea of her thought process, chew on this fact....she converted to Islam after 9/11!

Actually she said in court yesterday that she converted to islam in January 1997 and began veiling at the end of 1997.