Looking for that degree

[Iceman21]

In a few months I will be a flight instructor, hopefully working full time (keeping the fingers crossed at least!) and I have 0 college credits to speak of. Wife and kid at home, and a very busy lifestyle.

Now that you know me, I would like everyone's advice on getting my degree done. Those who post here seem mature and more professional than other boards I visit (about 10 other ones) so I feel I will get a experience-based answer from most.

Options-

• Part-time class work that will take about 5-6 years to get done if I go on weekends only.
• Online- take it my own pace, get the work done during every spare moment

Let me know what you all think. If you advise the online route, the school choice is up to me (if I can get accepted) so throw out the school choice you have, and I will research it.

FWIW - I am looking at a business type degree.

Thanks again for everyones help

 

[Iceman21]

36 views and no replies, c'mon someone has to have some sort of opinion on it.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

I am skeptical of online degrees personally...

I went to school full time and played CFI a bit, and I know of many more who did as well. What you need for that to work is a University close to an airport, preferably without a big huge aviation program of its own. Then, just don´t take a 21 credit hour classload (probably about 12 credit hours a semester for most people, maybe less for you with the family and all). Just block yourself out for class, and be willing to workt he long hours that will require.

But I think weekend or night class wouldnt´be too bad either, I´ve thought of going back to school that way.

That´s what I know, sorry it isn´t more.

Dan

 

[chawbein]

Start at community college. Take classes on nights and weekends (if they offer them). Community college will cost about half as much as a regular state school, and you can knock out the weed-out classes that a university puts all the frosh in. Also, you might look into joining the armed forces (reserves, guard) to help pay for the cost of schooling (I'm assuming that as a CFI you have not much money to play with). Just a few ideas.

 

[Flic1]

I'll second the Community College route. I did my first 2 years at one while working part-time (before I had my CFI). Worked as a CFI during the summer my last 2 years. All of my credits transferred and it's a cheaper way to do it. My classes at the C.C. were no different than at the 4-year school. I don't think I'd be too big on the online route. I know a few people that tried to get their MBA's online and neither finished it....

 

[av8g]

I also agree with starting at a two year college. Thats what I did (as well as working the flight line and being a flight instructor) and I will be graduating from university this December. Be very carefull that you talk to a counselor about taking general classes that will transfer for a BS or BA. Having a four year school in mind helps with this and many 2 year schools are already located in the vicinity of a 4 year college with transfer programs in place. I was also in the Army National Guard with active duty time behind me as well. There is nothing that comes close to the financial aid that comes from the military. However, be very very carefull of a decsion to join the military. There is a time comitment involved in training and you need to understand that when you sign up its not just for the college money- you also need to honor the obligation which means you may have to put your family and flying on hold for a year of so while your siting in the deserts of Iraq or the frozen tundra of Korea. If I were you I would go for the student loans. Worry about paying them off later. I'm sure having wife and kids makes things more complicated but its worth it to have the degree.

 

[MarriedToIt]

My two cents ... check with your school to see if they accept CLEP/DANTES credit. These are 1/5 - 2 hour subject tests created by an independent board usually given at your local college/library testing center so you can earn credit for classes you may already be well versed in. They cost about $45 - $60 depending on how much the college/library charges for their "testing fee." Check first with your institution to see if they even accept the credit (more than 2,900 do). If you pass, then you usually receive the equivalent of one class (sometimes 2 classes for the general exams) of credit. If you don't pass, then no harm done. It does not count as a "fail" on your record. Embry-Riddle's extended campus allows you to take CLEP tests, Community College and ERAU concurrently. You will have to finish a minimum number of Riddle credits to graduate. Just be smart about it and make sure to get the sign off from Riddle (or where ever you choose) as far as equivalency if that's what you're going for. ERAU has now posted their equivalency guidelines here: http://www.ec.erau.edu/cce/pom/ec-a-26.pdf

If you are a student in residence (Daytona Beach), forget this. You have to do all this (CLEP and community college) before you are admitted. After you are admitted to the main campus, they'll only accept Riddle credit towards degrees.

Here's the link for the organization that administers CLEP with all the good information: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/about.html

Of course, classroom instruction is always the best way to go, but if you're looking to finish in a hurry, it couldn't hurt to try. Most schools don't advertise this as they would rather have your tuition money. I finished my ERAU degree with main campus, extended campus, community college and 33 hrs. of CLEP credits in four years while working full time. My diploma looks just like my husband's who earned his on campus. Work smarter, not harder. The struggle is worth it. Good luck to you.

 

[chawbein]

marriedtoit - I guess you like embry riddle, huh?

Go to a regular college. Get a degree that has almost nothing to do with airplanes so that you can have a fullfilling career if you lose your medical or you can't fly for whatever reason. Hedge your bets, don't tie yourself to one thing (airplanes) like some people did with their retirements (Enron).

 

[MarriedToIt]

Just sharing my personal experience as a former Riddle employee and student. I thought it was pretty clear in my post that the CLEP/DANTES way of earning credit was not Riddle (or aviation for that matter) exclusive. Hope no one else got that impression.

 

[Iceman21]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions so far, I am more in tune with marriedtoit's suggestion, CLEP tests and online class work. I feel that will make my scheduale bearable. Now I just need to find a program that I like, and a school that I like.

I started looking at ERAU's program but got busy and put it off. I have not looked into any of their business courses (non-aviation related), so any guidelines would be helpful.

Thanks again.

 

[bobbysamd]

College

I would have responded had I seen your post sooner. Anyway, I, too, am skeptical of distance learning. I feel that if you want to get the most out of college that you should do it in person, on campus. Going full-time, even during the summer, will get you done faster, but night/weekend classes are better than not going at all.

I'd strongly recommend taking American Labor Movement and labor relations classes as Management electives if you study for a B.S.B.A. Management-labor relations are extremely important to pilots, and will become more so over the years. If you go to a JC be sure to choose your classes carefully so that you don't lose any credits when you transfer to a four-year school.

Finally, you might be able to get college credit for your ratings. Check it out. You might get elective credit.

Good luck with college.

 

[JediNein]

I'm an alumni of the University of Nebraska at Omaha. My courses there were online and at an appropriate difficulty level. I took several aviation and management courses, although not pursuing a business degree.

The only way people know if my degree is distance, online, or in-classroom is if I tell them. Both Nebraska and California have mandated that the online courses offered by their state-run schools be equivalent to and interchangeable with their classroom courses.

Frequently during the program, I was working with my classroom edition classmates on group projects. For some of the classroom students, this was an eye-opener. They'd never considered different time zones, class work being squeezed in between flight students, sleazy FBOs in the middle of nowhere without internet access, and talking as equals to people that are doing exactly what they want to be doing.

http://www.unomaha.edu/~unoai

The CFI and other certificates are worth immediate credit and advanced standing. Same with any CLEP or other test scores. Speak with Scott Vlasek or Karen Garver. They will give you all of the information you need to make a decision.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[Ponypilot]

ERAU Distance Learning

Hello, I'm also thinking of getting my degree through the DL/ERAU. There are at least 2 different degrees you can get credit for the ratings you have, I'm looking into the Management of Technical Operations. (Due to heal concerns I'm not sure I'll ever work as a pilot but I would like to work in the avaition industry).

Just my humble opinion, I'm new here.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I'd look into Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. If you are a veteran and are close to one of the bases where they have their programs, you can participate. I obtained my B.S. in Aviation Mgt. while on active duty, but we had a couple of vets in my classes.
Here is how the program works. SIU offers all the upper level courses (300-400s) that are specific to the degree being offered. It taught in a classroom environment and they have profs from the main campus or other qualified profs from industry and the private sector. You attend class every other weekend for 9 hours per day with each class taking 3 weekends to complete. The best thing about the program is that many of the profs I had are active in the specialty that they teach. An example of this would be my aviation law prof. He is a former USAF fighter pilot, AF reserve pilot and partner in a law firm that specializes in aviation law.
In your case you seemingly have zero college credit, and will need to have all your general education completed somehow. When you inquire with SIU they will evaluate any work experience or other specialized training that you've had and award credits based on that. With a CFI, I'm thinking thats going to be worth in the neighborhood of 25-30 credits or in other word close to a full year of college level credit. Other ways to get your "Gen Ed" complete are taking CLEP tests, going to your local community college or correspondence. I did all of the above to get my Gen Ed done. The good thing is that you can do this concurrently with the SIU program and realistically expect to finish in 2 years.
I hope that this information is somewhat helpful to you. And remember that there are more than a couple of ways to skin a cat out there. I cannot emphasize the importance of getting that college degree. Not only for your flying career, but it will make you more marketable in the event that flying doesn't work out.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
SIU Alumni 1996

 

[pilotyip]

Don't need a 4 yr degee

Unless you are getting a real degree from a real school, you are wasting your time and money. i.e. Business from the U of M. What do you want to be a pilot or an office worker? The reasons for degrees for pilots are 1. Oh! you need them for the majors, or 2. I will need something to fall back on ( the reason for a real degree from a real college), or 3. It shows I have accomplished something with my life. Do a search under pilotyip and you will find all kinds of threads relating to 4 yr degrees. Some of our best pilots Captains on the DC-9's make over 100K per year and have only driven by a college on the interstate. You do not need degree to be successful in aviation.

 

[STLCFII]

What I am doing is taking 5 general edu classes at the community college online while I rack up some airtime (cfi/cfii/mei), then I am going to be moving to an ERAU Extended Campus to finish up. They offer 5 9 week semesters of night courses that meet once a week per class and will grant me 36 credit hours for my flight experience. From my experience with the online classes at the community college, they are just as good as in the classroom. Most people don't like online courses because it is new and not as proven as in the classroom. When I go to ERAU's EC I plan on taking 2 classes in the classroom during each of the semesters and then a couple online classes throughout the year. The online classes are over a longer time, 14 weeks I think, so it'll be a good mix. The main couple reasons I am taking the online courses at the community college now is because 1) its cheeper and 2) being online allows the flexibility so I can rack up more airtime which will get me more credits at ERAU. Going this path will allow me to finish up my degree around 2 years once I get to ERAU. This looks like it'll work out for me, maybe you should look into it!

 

[adam_jorgensen]

Great, I was thinking of doing an online course to get my BS in aviation science through the University of Utah at my local flying club, and that way, I don't have to spend as much money, get to stay at home and keep my job but of course, as usual, everytime I get an idea that I like, everybody else says its not a good idea to take online courses. What should I do now?

 

[bobbysamd]

Re: Don't need a 4 yr degee

Originally posted by pilotyip
Some of our best pilots Captains on the DC-9's make over 100K per year and have only driven by a college on the interstate. You do not need degree to be successful in aviation.

No, you do not need a college degree to fly airplanes. You don't even need a high school diploma. Maybe you can drop out in tenth grade and test out of high school by getting your GED.

Okay, then, Yip, with all the hoardes of pilots looking for precious few jobs, even in good times, how do you distinguish yourself without a degree? I submit that a significant percentage of jobhunters, if not the majority, have at least some college. I submit, again, that you have to offer the best credentials possible. The degree is one such credential.

I remember reading the "Congratulations, FAPA Pilots" column in Kit's old magazine, Career Pilot, years ago. Invariably, the people whom the majors hired had at least some college, if not a four-year degree or more.

Why is it that the typical airline app makes such a big deal out of educational quals? Clearly, a degree is a door-opener, if not needed outright to be able to fly an airplane.

You have written that you have a B.S. in Physics from Michigan State, a pretty decent school, and an M.A. from Central Michigan. More education than I have. I am sure the B.S. helped you get your Navy gig. Therefore, I don't quite understand where you're coming from, Yip, on not encouraging aspirants to get a degree.

Maybe I'm not seeing something here. What does it take for an applicant to obtain the opportunity to sit across the desk from you for an interview? Do tell . . . .

 

[Flywrite]

I started the ERAU Extended Campus degree in January. So far I'm enjoying it, and contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to learn a lot from an online course, you jsut have to be disciplined and schedule "classtime" that you stick to.

I'm not sure how much credit you will get for a Commercial and CFI, but I got 36 hours for an ATP, CFI, and Air Carrier experience. I imagine you would get at least 20-25 hours towards a Professional Aeronautics Degree.

Marriedtoit has a good point about getting CLEP credit if you can, however ERAU WILL accept CLEP credit after you enroll, you just have to let your advisor know in advance. If you can find your way onto this board you can get 3 hours credit for Computer Applications through a $50 CLEP test. Sample test books are available at any decent bookstore, or at the College Board website (www.collegeboard.org I think)

Overall I would also suggest knocking out the freshman classes at Community College/CLEP, then look into ERAU. While doing the Community COllege thing you might be able to build the 1500 hours to get your ATP and the extra credit hours.

ERAU is not cheap, but financial aid is available and it's a fun degree when you're into aviation. I wish I'd done it sooner.

Good Luck!