Looking For F/a Position Private Flying In Usa Pls Help!!

[Ace-of-the-Base]

But the pilots WERE to blame.

XYZ operator didnt "let the owner work the crews 20 hrs /day" -- The pilots are big boys and girls and THEY let XYZ operator work them 20hrs/day. Step up and take resonsibility folks.

Hard to take responsibility when your not alive. Aren't you the cowboy, it's all up to you...no one else is involved in the safety of the operation. Wow. And I'm sure we all like how you get on your high horse but talk about how you 'bend' the FARs. Nice. You're an amature, and your right, you didn't learn a thing from that accident, nor my wasted breath in this post. Now, back to the thread. Some gal wants to find a good job in america (and a husband, but it sounds like she found that already). Let's all give her some constructive info. She's probably rolling her eyes about now...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

What ILS @ASE??
Thanks
TCA
Still Climbing

You know, the one where you reach the MDA DME fix and continue the descent IMC at 2000' fpm and look for the road (through the snow showers) The hell with that GPWS, you know thats the road and it leads up the east side of the airport.

That ILS.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hard to take responsibility when your not alive. Aren't you the cowboy, it's all up to you...no one else is involved in the safety of the operation. Wow. And I'm sure we all like how you get on your high horse but talk about how you 'bend' the FARs. Nice. You're an amature, and your right, you didn't learn a thing from that accident, nor my wasted breath in this post. Now, back to the thread. Some gal wants to find a good job in america (and a husband, but it sounds like she found that already). Let's all give her some constructive info. She's probably rolling her eyes about now...

Sorry we dont agree ACE, all Im saying is take some responsibility for your decisions.

18 people died that day due to pilots decisions to decend below MDA at KASE at night in IMC. Nothing More.

Analyze all you want - thats the fact. (unfortunaltly)

As far as learning something?? OH OK, I learned that what they did was a bad decision. Im such an amature. I will have to rememeber not to do that in the future.

Always learning. Safety First. (or maybe common sense)

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

OK, fair enough. We disagree. My point is summed up as this:
At my company (and others I've seen) that crew would never have been ALLOWED to take off that close to curfew and never would have been put in the position to make such bad and illegal decisions. That captain was know by the company to be a 'hot rod'. He had taken an aircraft off the end of a runway and tried to taxi it out of the mud and into the hangar without telling anyone (the tower called the FAA). He shouldn't have been hired, shouldn't have been dispatched, and, yes, finally shouldn't have flown below MDA. It takes a village...I'm glad I have a company, a copilot and a wife that help keep me out of trouble. I guess you are a one-man army.

Respectfully.

Ace

 

[Gulfstream 200]

sounds like you, also, have a good company behind you.

That helps.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Good points Ace. Allow me to quote:

"Most people place a large value on personal autonomy, or sense of free will. We also impute this to others, so that when we learn that someone has committed an error with bad consequences, we assume that this individual actually chose an error-prone rather a 'sensible' course of action. In other words, we tend to perceive the errors of others as having an intentional element, particularly when their training and status suggest that 'they should have known better'. Such voluntary actions attract blame and recrimination, which in turn are felt to deserve various sanctions.
Our judgements of human actions are subject to similarity bias. We have a natural tendency to assume that disastrous outcomes are caused by equally monstrous blunders. In reality, of course, the magnitude of the disaster is determined more by situational factors than by the extent of the errors. Many bad accidents rise from a concatenation of relatively minor failings in different parts of the SYSTEM.
Finally, it cannot be denied that there is a great deal of emotional satisfaction to be gained from having someone (rather than something) to blame when things go badly wrong. Few of us are able to resist the pleasures of venting our psychic spleens on some convenient scapegoat. And in the case of organizations, of course, there is considerable financial advantage in being able to detach individual fallibility from corporate responsibility."

Basically what Ace is correctly stating is that "human error does not take place in a vacuum, but within the context of organizations which either resist or foster it."

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Exactly. I have always thought that all of us pilots have done something marginal at one point or another that scared us. One personallity type would say "man, I'll never do THAT again" while another would say "I guess that worked out o.k."

I would venture to say that this crew most likely had done stuff like this several times in the past, and, as is common, it worked out. Flying is inhearently safe, even when you push the envelope, you are probably gonna make it. That is why you need your back watched. Maybe some of us would do just fine even when we don't have the support from the others we work with, but it never hurts.

A proper flight is one where the outcome is never in question.