Looking at going corporate!

[jc3]

I am currently a FO with a regional with upgrade about a year and a half away. I have been thinking about going corporate for quite sometime now. I live in Jacksonville and was wondering if anyone had any advice, should I stay at the regionals and try to build some PIC time or should I be trying get a corporate job now. Any thoughts about pros and cons would be greatly appreciated.

 

[voetsak]

I am currently a FO with a regional with upgrade about a year and a half away. I have been thinking about going corporate for quite sometime now. I live in Jacksonville and was wondering if anyone had any advice, should I stay at the regionals and try to build some PIC time or should I be trying get a corporate job now. Any thoughts about pros and cons would be greatly appreciated.

not trying to be harsh on you brother, but there are sooooo many threads on this very topic already......just do a search.

 

[pilotyip]

When my airline was going out of business, I decided to go into the corp. world got hired at a Fortune 500 auto parts supplier in Detroit with SE ATP. The company had 2 airplanes and 5 pilots. They had never had a lay off in their history. 3 years later in the auto turndown of 1982. They cut their dept in half, and I was let go. I saw it happen at VW, K-Mart, Dana, Ford, US Steel, the list goes on. The smaller companies are even worse, not to say there are not good corp. jobs out there, but there are no guarantees

 

[Captain Morgan]

Not only that, but do your homework! I didn't do as much as I should have and I'm sorry for it. Make sure you know what kind of boss the DO/CP is and how the schedule works. Also, know if you're going to be typed right away or if you will just be sitting there. I'm doing the latter and I am so miserable. Other than that, the money is good, and... that's about it. Good luck with your search!

CM

 

[Dep676]

Not only that, but do your homework! I didn't do as much as I should have and I'm sorry for it. Make sure you know what kind of boss the DO/CP is and how the schedule works. Also, know if you're going to be typed right away or if you will just be sitting there. I'm doing the latter and I am so miserable. Other than that, the money is good, and... that's about it. Good luck with your search!

CM

I have one thing to say ATP. By the looks of your profile you do not have your ATP yet. If I were the boss I would be wondering that with a person that has 3800 hours.

 

[oiltycoon]

JC3

Where do you want to be 5-10 years from now?

I made the switch from 121 to 91/135. It wasn't easy breaking through- it took about 1 year of sending out tons of resumes and bugging lots of people I didn't know.

First, take Capt. Morgan's advice about finding out if you're getting typed right away or not. It can ultimately lead to a debate such as this one: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=96251

Second, coming from scheduled 121, you're going to have to be very flexible going to 91 when it comes to days on and off. You fly when the boss says so. You just have to remember that hes/he is signing your paycheck.

Third, search the forums for more info. All I can say is good luck and don't let rejections/no responses get to you. 91 outfits don't hire in masses like 121. Network- get ANY contacts, numbers, emails, etc. Eventually it pays off.

 

[LXJ31]

I've got better advice; marry wealthy and spend all your (now) free time as an airport bum with an Extra 300...

Too late for me, but you still have hope.

 

[Seadogrun]

Being a year away from upgrade I think I would stick it out. The 91/135 is a tough life to live coming from 121 I imagine. What would your motive for the move be?

 

[Captain Morgan]

I already have the job, why did I get hired if I don't have my ATP? If that was a big deal to them, they should've said get your ATP or we'll send you to school and you can get it with the checkride. I don't understand the relevance to my suggestion to the original poster. To answer the question, I never got it because I don't want to pay for it unless I have to.

 

[Hawker800]

Some very good advice has been posted. That said keep in mind in the pt91 world the aircraft comes and goes on the bosses word. The longivity of the flight dept. hangs on the same thing. Can be sold in a flash. Unless the operation flies 300 hours plus yearly and has a need for the aircraft instead of personal use, then I would stay with my 121 position.

 

[svcta]

I got out of 121 about a year ago. My QOL has improved by insane leaps and bounds, and I work for an owner that is one of the nicest guys I've ever met. I stay on his yacht if I want to, play with the jet skis if I want to, have unlimited expense account, blah blah blah. But, I'm flying less than half what I was told to expect when I interviewed. I go weeks at a time without flying a jet. My free time is my own in so much as I don't have to go to the airport if the airplane's ready to go, and I try to make the most of it, but I'm not at the point in my career where I can stop flying(essentially), I'm too young(ball park of 30). 75 hours a year is jut not good for one's flying career (pardon the rhyme).

I would look for a gig that showed the promise of flying around 400 hours a year in order to stay sane and somewhat competitive in the job market should you need to leave. And like it's been said above, a hard sched. is going to be hard to find over here in 91 land, but the rewards can be worth it if you find the right job. Another piece of advice I would give is to almost plan on getting any corp. gig you can for a year or so just to get the airline stigma off of you. I don't want to get in to the validity of it, but it does exist sometimes. And corp. experience matters in the corp. world.

 

[jc3]

I appreciate all the input. As far as where I want to be in 5-10 yrs, I'd like to have a flying job that allows me to live on the coast and spend quality time with my family. I feel like I am a little more adventurous so I'd like the unknown of where my next trip will be. I get a little tired of the same old spots. I also consider myself a people person and enjoy interacting with people. (I know people can be a pain in the a$$, including myself) Overall I'm just exploring my options. I have no corporate experience, I just can't help but think it might be a better fit for me! Thanks again for all the advice. Keep it coming if you have anymore! I know it varies from job to job, but what would be competitive for someones first corporate gig?

 

[SpaceBall 1]

The corporate world can be very fun and rewarding. I was fortunate enough to be managing a small, 1 jet operation at 26 in 1999. We flew to some reqular places, (TEB, PHL, BHM) but to many fun places as well, (Denver, San Juan to name a few). My partner and I would bring ski equipment along in winter and hiking gear in summer. Expense account and all benefits you could dream of. Problem was, the jet had 3 owners. Along 3qtr 2003, 2 of the owners decided they wanted out of the jet. Next thing I know, I have basically 1 month to shutdown the flight department and find a job to feed my family.

I have since migrated to the fractional world where there is a nice mix of both corporate flying and schedule. I miss the aspects of flying for one group of individuals and felling like I am making a contribution to that specific organization. I also enjoyed maintenance visits with the jet and beating the shops up over the bill.......but that is for a different thread.

My advice comming from 121 to 91 is be prepared to be flexible. You may be planning on attending the kids play at school, but if the boss calls, do tell him "Sorry, little Billy is playing a tree tonight and I can't go". I never did.....you go fly. The only time I knew I really had off was when gone on vacation. We didn't have many pop-ups, but when they happened, it was usually an emergency and as long as I was safe, comfortable and legal.....we went. We typically had a schedule 2 weeks in advance, but the pain in the butt guy would pop-up 2 days before. And he was always late! Drove some of my pilots crazy (me too on ocassion), but that is why your paid. You are on the boss' schedule.

Breaking into corporate can be tough. Network, network, network. In case you do not understand.....you need to network. When I shut everything down in 2003, I had been flying corporate for 7 years and had numerous contacts. Things were slow then, was offered a few crappy jobs in areas I did not want to live, so I decided to make the jump to the Fracs. I think I am gone more now (my wife argues differently) but I have a better quality of home time when here.

Hope this helps.....didn't mean to ramble. I love corporate flying and do not have any intentions of ever going 121. Although I would maybe leave for the a GOOD 91 gig, its hard to beat the job security at the fracs.

 

[Dep676]

I already have the job, why did I get hired if I don't have my ATP? If that was a big deal to them, they should've said get your ATP or we'll send you to school and you can get it with the checkride. I don't understand the relevance to my suggestion to the original poster. To answer the question, I never got it because I don't want to pay for it unless I have to.

I was just referring to your current job about just sitting there. You got the job because someone was looking for a warm body to fill a seat. I just mentioned an ATP because it can open doors and maybe get you a better job.

I can totally understand you not wanting to pay for it. I don't know what it cost because I had the pleasure of using the airplane and only paying for the examiner. Plus it is tax deductible, so you will get it back.

I did not mean it to sound like I was busting your chops. After reading my post again, it sounded like that. Sorry for that. I was just trying to help you maybe be able to move on from your current situation.

Good Luck.

 

[hawkerjet]

You ought to be clear on a couple of things.
Corporate sometimes is the universal expression for anything businessjet.
You should know that there are great differences between similar flight departments. Just ask someone that flies for TAG or AvJet vs someone flying for a small operator.
Also there is a huge difference in Part 91 flying vs Fractional jet flying.
And finally you have the freight companies. Thousands of thankless hours and lower pay, but you gain precious PIC Turbine time.
Just so you are aware, a corporate job is one that serves a particular company ( or 2 when documented) such as Coca Cola, and flies those who work for Coke or are associated with Coke. ( Simple version). These jobs are very difficult to get unless you know someone on the inside that would help you out.
My advice to you is to find someone in the type of flying you are interested in most and find out as much as you can. There has to be many good things associated with your current job, so ask if there is any similarity. As some of the poster's above commented about 135/91 schedules, that is the case in the majority of instances however there are flying jobs out there with schedules. Keep on asking questions.

 

[jc3]

Thanks for all the good info. keep it come'n!

 

[Captain Morgan]

No problem. I just wanted to get the situation I'm in depicted correctly. Hope everyone had a happy Easter.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

I know it varies from job to job, but what would be competitive for someones first corporate gig?

Knowing somebody at the company. We're all pilots; therefore we can all fly airplanes: Big airplanes, small airplanes, slow airplanes, fast airplanes, new airplanes, old airplanes.... A compatible personality is huge when it comes to the corporate world. Depending on the size of operation, you'll probably be flying with the same guy(s) almost everyday. Who wants to be stuck flying with a jerk?

Someday when I'm chief pilot doing interviews, I'm going to look for someone who fits the corporate culture. Actually, I would be bias to hiring someone who has a similar personality to myself. A formal interview is not a good way to feel out someone's personality. I would suggest getting to know someone at a company you would like to work for. Then start dropping by with food (donuts, muffins, pizza). I've heard of guys doing this, and it usually works!

Just my humble opinion. Good luck.

 

[g159av8tor]

Thanks for all the good info. keep it come'n!

There is more variation in Part 91 Universe than in the 121 World. In stating Part 91 I am specifically excluding any aircraft on a certificate.

Asking yourself what you want out of a career is nothing more than a gut check. If you have a family, they always come first! I would steer anyone away from flying Part 91 for a single owner or a group of owners operating under a LLC. You may get many fringe bennies and may get treated like family, but only family are in the will. There is more stability flying for larger corporations, but they can come and go to with leadership changes at the executive level. My company has been flying airplanes and/ or helicopters consecutively for 61 years. We are as stable as any Legacy.

A legacy carrier hasn't gone buh-bye since T-Dub. Republicans saved and floated UAL, DAL and NWA, et al with loans and subsidies; but, that program will probably end with the Democratic Congress. Will the airline system unravel again?

Part 91 versus 121 is not really comparing apples to apples, more like oranges to tangerines. For example, most trips where I work don't last more than a couple days, we average less then 5 RONs a month. I only know for certain which four days off I will have next month by the previuous mid-month. The rest, I know a week in advance. We infrequently (somewhere between never and occasionally) fly on weekends, never holidays. We bid those days based on a rolling seniority schedule--the guy with forst pick this month has last pick next month. Vacation is awarded as late as a month previous, if available.

91 flying runs the gamut of the Mesas of the world to the FedExs. In my experience, there is only two thing that keeps pilots shooting towards airline flying: big-plane envy and schedules.

My advice: don't listen to anyone but yourself and your family--including me.

Tailwinds...

 

[Shag McNasty]

"My company has been flying airplanes and/ or helicopters consecutively for 61 years. We are as stable as any Legacy."

I don't think I'd use Sears/K-mart as an example of stability in the corporate world. Today's flight department is a vastly scaled down version of what it once was.