Looking at corporate... Please advise!

[I'm lost]

Hey guys,

It's nice to read a group of people a little more civilized than many of the folks that populate my side of the profession, the airline side.

I'm a Captain on a 1900, and I am one of the lucky one's who still have their job but I'm feed up with the airlines and I'm looking to make the switch to corporate. I don't know much about the corporate side and was wondering if any of you all might be kind enough to lend some advice.

Currently I have about 2800 hours, most of which is turboprop time and have about 800 PIC. I currently live in the ATL area but I'm willing to move.

One of the questions I had was about quality of life flying corporate, and does it make sense for me to leave part 121 flying???

All comments are appreciated.

 

[TMMT]

With those credentials and experience you would be a prime candidate for a King Air operator and there are a few in and around Atlanta. Best way to find one is to pound the pavement and go visit places like Peachtree-Dekalb, Fulton County and Lawrenceville, also ride down to Columbus, willing to relocate, you’ll find one.

Also try Charlotte NC plenty of Beech stuff over that way too…

If you’re just fed up with the airlines and willing to resign the seniority number I’m sure you’ll find someone with a King Air who’ll have you.

As for jet jobs, well that too will depend on what’s happening in your area

2800 total may land you a nice job flying a Lear or a Citation.

On the QOL issue, it can and will vary from job to job, most F/T corporate ops are for the most part run well. A lot of folks here tend to lump charter ops and corporate ops in the same basket, which is why, some have a totally skewed idea of corporate.

Most F/T corporate jobs will take good care of their pilots and will pay well, they’ll keep the equipment up and take care of you while on the road.

We tend to stay at the same places our passenger’s stay and can even partake of the company activities on occasion. Last month I had the chance to go bone fishing in the Keys and had a blast.

And good companies are not all relative to the size of the equipment they own and fly either. A family friend of mine has a super nice job flying a Westwind for a small company based out of Southern CA. He’s paid almost as much as some Gulfstream Captains I know, flies about 20 hrs a month and rarely has a RON.

Just start looking, begin to define what it is you want out of a corporate job, hours, money, time home, locale etc…

Do you want to remain in corporate or do you think something like NetJets would be more to your liking?

Do you want to reach for the left seat of a BBJ or would you be just as happy flying in a Lear?

Spend some time and do a little digging fist, define your goals and then begin to look at companies you might like to work for.

Companies like for their pilots to take an interest in what it is the company does, other than just flying the company jet.

When I made the decision to go corporate way back when I was also looking at the airlines, the allure seemed so cool to me, but having made the decisions that I have, I am so glad I didn’t go down that road.

TMMT

 

[banned username 2]

A lot of the factors of a Corporate job really depend on which company you work for... With 2,800 hours you have a good amount of time, but with no jet time you may not land a "Fortune 500" job the first time out... But you can always move up...

I would venture to say that either way you will most likely be getting a pay raise coming over to the Corporate side.

I can give you an example of how my company is to work for...

We typically require 4,000+ hours (technically we can hire F/O's with as low as 2,500 hours, but 4,000 is much more competitive)

Our new hire pilots start at a salary of around $75,000/yr plus bonuses and full benefits (including life insurance, health insurance, dental insurance, company sponsored pension plan, 401k with company match, profit sharing, etc.)

As far as quality of life, our guys typically average about 12-14 days a month of work, these can range from out-and-back day trips, a 2 or 3 day Europe trip to a 7 day trip to Asia. We average about 4-6 RON's per month. We fly excellently maintained equipment that was all bought brand new with all the bells and whistles (our 900EX's even have HUD's)... We typically know our schedule several weeks in advance, things can change, but you at least have a good idea what the basic structure will be...

The above is fairly typical of a good corporate operator... again things will vary greatly from company to company...

As far as quitting your 121 job to come to Corporate, I would say yes, but DEFINATELY don't quit until you have a job lined up first! I have know guys who have quit jobs with the majors to work for a good Corporate operator... It all depends on what type of flying you want to do.

Flying Corporate is a pretty big change from flying for the airlines... We do all of our own flight planning, pick our own fuel loads, etc... You even help load the bags sometimes... You will be involved in every aspect of the trip... not just flying the airplane...

I hope this helps!

Good Luck!

 

[prodigal]

CLT

NO NO NO, please don't come to CLT, we don't need any more competition! Besides, traffic is horrible (although not as bad as Atlanta), too many yankees (ok, Atlanta has it worse than us again), no real character to the city, just banker-yuppie types; what the he!!, you might as well come on up.


Just kidding, best of luck, if you can stand all the banker types here

 

[I'm lost]

Falcon Capt.

The situation you are in is exactly what I'm looking for, heck you would be a fool not be happy with your company's pay and QOL. I want to find a place that treats me somewhat like a human and a place that I can be happy working for year after year. And if I find that place I would end up staying there.

Would you recommend starting out with a charter operator to build up contacts, or just shoot straight for the corperate side of things???

OHHHHHH so many questions.........

 

[Gulfstream 200]

if all your experience is airline, get what you can (charter, fractional, whatever) to start building up a corporate looking resume and experience.

Of course 99% is WHO you know. Very few (if any) large good corp flight depts hire blindly from the outside. They all come from inside reccomendations....so networking is KEY once your are in the game!

Corp flying can be fun. Decent money - ours starts at $80,000 and goes up from there. Benefits are usually very good, some even have good pensions and profit sharing or stock options. Some start with 4 weeks vacation, and 99% fly very nice equipment - new Gulfstreams, Globals, Falcons, etc..
Beware these departments, while well staffed, travel WORLDWIDE - all the time- you will be gone more than flying a 1900, 6-10 day trips are not unheard of....3-5 seems more normal though. Example...last month I did 12 RONS in various parts of the world. March I am scheduled for only 6. SO beware the traveling is a little different. Intl is the norm, domestic is the exception. I happen to like that, but many guys/gals dont.

I always thought a senior airline Capt is the best job in this business....but that has all changed in the last few years....if you find something decent, hold on to it these days!

Good luck to you

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon Capt.

The situation you are in is exactly what I'm looking for, heck you would be a fool not be happy with your company's pay and QOL. I want to find a place that treats me somewhat like a human and a place that I can be happy working for year after year. And if I find that place I would end up staying there.

Would you recommend starting out with a charter operator to build up contacts, or just shoot straight for the corperate side of things???

OHHHHHH so many questions.........

Trust me, I certainly plan on staying!

Try to look for both, don't limit yourself to just Corporate at this point in your game... Charter will probably yield faster results and get you the experience and connections that it will take to land a good Corporate job.

Remember Charter won't have as good quality of life as a good Corporate job, but it will only be a stepping stone, so you grin and bare it for a couple years...

Also keep in mind that many people lump together Charter, Fractional, Personal Owner and Corporate Flying under the "Corporate" title... They are all very different animals... take some time and do your research...

True Corporate flying can be a lot of fun, offer a very good quality of life (haven't missed a holiday, birthday or special family occasion yet! (been Corporate over 6 years)) and offer a good salary with great benefits...

Take some time to do your research, you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[Airpiraterob]

exactly what im lookin for.

got all PIC, and lookin hard....but.

i dont think ive found the 'trade paper' with the want ads in the back. wheres some of the best sources for lmassive group listings? i know that local talent is looked at first usually however with larger equipment you almost have to look at relocating someone to fly your stuff. i know ill eventually find out how to find the small perfect jobs that are hardly heard about, but just getting into corporate? where do i look first? wheres the best classifides for someone lookin to relocate most anywhere?

 

[steveg]

Good thread

I'm looking to do the same. Been talking to a lot of places. I'll be happy to hear back on anything. A good corporate operation is going to be the way to go for a long time I think. I've been with airlines for 10 years, and I'd give it away in a flash for a good corporate job.

Let me pose this question though. Airline salaries are taking a huge cut. They are traditionally the best. Does that mean Corporate pay is going to eventually follow? I'm not trying to bait anyone, just asking a real concern. Is the downturn in airline aviation going to affect corporate flying? Well, what do you think? Personally, I hope not.

Steve

 

[TMMT]

I seriously doubt it.

Among the companies I’ve worked for all pilots were considered “at the management level” and therefore salaries reflected this. Also I never went a year that I did not receive a pay raise, some were better than others but…

A big driving force behind corporate flight is the upper management; they understand what can and is accomplished by a finely tuned and smartly run flight dept. They also understand the added benefits of a private op. from the obvious security of a personal plane, being able to discuss company sensitive matters openly while aboard to just known the guys up front.

All these things come into play when salary is brought up.

Most CEO’s know that if one starts cutting pay, the heavy hitters, career corp. guys with reams of experience will go elsewhere. There is an insensitive to keep and retain the good help, and from my experiences the salaries of a half a dozen PIC type G-IV pilots pale in comparison to some of the dough I’ve seen shelled out of company department heads, senior level management or highly specialized personnel.

To answer your question, no I don’t see corporate salaries as a whole going the way of the airline paycheck airlines are in it to make money, our job is to make sure the CEO can do his job.

TMMT

 

[steveg]

Thanks for the reply,

I hope (and think) you are right. It would be a shame if all aviation jobs were tied to this messed up business called airlines.

So what about it, any future for furloughed airline guys willing to give up their seniority? Are we viewed negatively by other corporate pilots? How do we get our foot in the door? It's nice to see honest and nice postings from people. The airline boards are so cut throat, it makes me want to quit aviation.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Jack Schitt]

Most major corporations use a specialized salary survey to compare their salaries to other companies with the same size and type of fleet. In other words, GE doesn't like to lose their G-IV captains to ExxonMobile or vice versa. Ya gotta keep up with the Jones's and as long as Mr. Jones keeps payin'.........

Steve,

I personally know of 4 furloughed major airline pilots that are presently working for major Fortune 500 companies. It can and will happen.

 

[steveg]

Jack,

Again, I hope and think you are right. Problem is, that same kind of thinking is what lead to $350k+ airline salaries that are unsustainable. It's great if you are on the leading edge. If not, then witness the current problems. I'm not trying to bait anyone. Just thinking of answers to interview questions. How do we market ourselves, and still ask for top dollar when there are so many of us? Giving up pay is a bad precedence. So where do we go?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[banned username 2]

I seriously doubt it.

Among the companies I’ve worked for all pilots were considered “at the management level” and therefore salaries reflected this. Also I never went a year that I did not receive a pay raise, some were better than others but…

A big driving force behind corporate flight is the upper management; they understand what can and is accomplished by a finely tuned and smartly run flight dept. They also understand the added benefits of a private op. from the obvious security of a personal plane, being able to discuss company sensitive matters openly while aboard to just known the guys up front.

All these things come into play when salary is brought up.

Most CEO’s know that if one starts cutting pay, the heavy hitters, career corp. guys with reams of experience will go elsewhere. There is an insensitive to keep and retain the good help, and from my experiences the salaries of a half a dozen PIC type G-IV pilots pale in comparison to some of the dough I’ve seen shelled out of company department heads, senior level management or highly specialized personnel.

To answer your question, no I don’t see corporate salaries as a whole going the way of the airline paycheck airlines are in it to make money, our job is to make sure the CEO can do his job.

TMMT

I agree completely....

All our pilots are at an middle/upper management pay grade....

 

[Jack Schitt]

Steve,

I think the difference is that corp pilots aren't trying to get a bigger piece of the company profits. It relates more to cost of living adjustments and retaining good people.

 

[steveg]

Best reply I've seen yet. The airline unions I've dealt with want a huge piece of the profit, and nothing to do with the loss. The greed and arrogance overwhelms me, and I've been an airline guy for 10+ years!

So how 'bout it. What can a guy just trying to fly airplanes for a living do? Keep knocking on doors? Explain my past (I'm embarassed to say who I presently work for). Take any job I can? Or hope for a good corporate job looking for airline guys? HAHA! I truly have no ego when it comes to flying, and I can't get the time of day. I'd be happy to fly right seat in a 172!

Thanks for the Info.

Steve

 

[Frac Daddy]

Some charter outfits in Atlanta.

The other posters are correct, in my opinion. You need to start a "corporate-looking" resume. The 1900 time should definitely help land a King Air charter gig. Here is a link that lists the charter operators in Atlanta.(Mostly at KPDK). http://www.aircharterguide.com/acg/guide/operators/bylocation.asp?country=US&state=GA+&city=ATLANTA As you can see, there are a few King Airs out there. Start banging on their doors. Try KLZU, too. Georgia Jet is the name I believe.

 

[Iceman21]

I guess my question would be, where does the guy who only has 100 TT and would like to target Corporate aviation start. I know networking is the key and everyone says start banging on doors but what do you do after the door is opened?

Just introduce yourself and take it from there? I guess that is where I kinda struggle as of right now, is selling myself.

Any tips?

 

[banned username 2]

I guess my question would be, where does the guy who only has 100 TT and would like to target Corporate aviation start. I know networking is the key and everyone says start banging on doors but what do you do after the door is opened?

Just introduce yourself and take it from there? I guess that is where I kinda struggle as of right now, is selling myself.

Any tips?

Well you need to keep things in perspective... with 100TT and a Private Pilot Certificate, don't go bothering the Corporate Operators.... YET

Get the rest of your certificates and ratings.. INCLUDING your CFI, CFI-I and CFI-ME....

Get a job as a CFI and fly your butt off... Get 1,500 hours and the rest of the ATP requirements, get your ATP Certificate.

After you get your ATP, start hitting all the local Charter Operators (passenger carrying) that you can... Get a job flying Charter and move up from the turbo props to the jets... get a jet Type Rating or two and a decent amount of jet time...

NOW start banging on the Corporate Operators doors with a nice resume that includes an ATP, 3000-4000 hours Total Time, a Jet Type rating or two and 500+ hours of jet time... NOW you are a prime candidate for a decent Corporate job...

If you start bothering them too early, (like when there is no way possible they can hire you even if they wanted to) by the time you are ripe for hire they will be sick of you... Make sure when you start bothering them you have some realistic qualifications to offer them...

Good Luck, Corporate Aviation can be very rewarding!

 

[Iceman21]

Falcon Capt, thanks for your comments, I appreciate them

I guess I made it seem like I was trying to jump the gun, and I understand that I am in no way shape or form ready to banging on the doors of Motorola asking them for a seat on one of their Challengers.

My question was more along the lines of "How do go about banging on doors when I am ready to?" What sort of ways are there to properly accomplish networking without getting every door slammed in my face because I made an ass out of myself?

That being said, I will finish off my ratings by the end of spring and be instructing by June so I will have that under my belt and begin chipping away at the iceburg.

Thanks again,

Mike