Look at what Virgin America has done with pilot wages

[glasspilot1]

more money for more legroom, what a concept, United, NWA and everyone else have been doing this for a couple years now.

Lets go back to 1994 and TWA's "Comfort Class":

http://nknet.com/twa/multimedia/video/twacc2.mov


The problem with "more legroom" is when the airline needs the seats back, the legroom disappears!

 

[vixin]

Maybe they can afford to pay the pilots then.

 

[thruthemurk]

Standard practice in Europe.

Yeah.

So is bathing once a week.
Girls not shaving armpits or legs,
and even dropping your rifles and running the other way.


What's your point?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Ralphie

Whilst I'm sure you guys are full why won't your company issue any data whilst they have total access to everyone elses fiancial stats.

I just drive the bus FADEC so I am kinda wondering about the numbers as well. I've been through one shutdown and am always looking for the symptoms. So far the hotels are top notch and happy to see us, the fuelers are on time and MX is done in a heart beat.

"They" say 1. We are a private company and shouldn't have to. 2. The DOT rules allow requests for non disclosure as well as appeals, so they see no reason not to use this to a competitive advantage.

I followed this DOT process from the beginning. One thing I've learned is the airlines treat the DOT as a moving target and a general guideline. We pilots are used to hard & fast rules, like "thall shall not bust minimums". The airlines think like "that stop light is mearly a suggestion".

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Maybe they can afford to pay the pilots then.

Hi Vixin, nice to see you stop by. My paychecks have always been on time, and to the penny accurate.

 

[vixin]

Hello Ralph,

How about paying what they are worth? If they are doing so well. Why not get a raise? Its not hard to count pennies.

 

[febtober]

clearly the pilots are getting paid what they are worth if they choose to work there

 

[vixin]

Yeah thats it.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Hello Ralph,

How about paying what they are worth? If they are doing so well. Why not get a raise? Its not hard to count pennies.

LMAO!:laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

that's a good point actually-
as a capitalist i support VA's existence and right to compete.
That being said- the business side of the pilot career has to question the plan of raising rates only when the upgrade times increase?

 

[saabservant]

I find it amusing to hear Major airline pilots bitch about the pay scales at VA.... they are the ones who created a permanent class of underpaid, overworked regional pilots, with few alternatives but places like VA...

Outsourcing and scope in exchange for pensions and pay for the senior pilots. That's what it boils down to.
Now I hear that UAL wants to replace the retiring 737's with embraers, flown by regionals. When will someone stop this?

 

[nosoupforyou!]

Hey, I'm the first to agree with ya on that one.

Problem is, it's a hard sell with so many pilots on the street right now.

Hopefully the price of gas will drop, guys will get recalled and life will be good again for all. OTOH, this downturn looks pretty serious.

Hey Marc, is that you?

Hope all is well.

 

[mesaserf]

Does anyone wonder why the old timers were so anal about uniforms? There is an old saying that if you can't dress like a pro than don't expect to be paid like one.

Would you take your baby girl to a doctor who dressed like the guy you just got done giving change to outside the quick trip?

Just asking....Mesaserf

Updated pilot uniforms coming this fall. No tie

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Hate to break it to you mesaserf, but the very highly respected doctor I carefully selected to do a recent surgery never wore a tie in any of the meetings I had with him. In fact, the day we met up in the hospital he was wearing his scrubs and a mask. His knowledge and skill were my only concerns, not his wardrobe.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Hello Ralph,

How about paying what they are worth? If they are doing so well. Why not get a raise? Its not hard to count pennies.

I'm worth a million a year, and for that I'll fly a day trip every other Wednesday. I haven't found an employer that agrees with me yet!

 

[Ralph Cramden]

clearly the pilots are getting paid what they are worth if they choose to work there

Are you saying I should have applied at CAL and accepted first year pay and bennies there? After 30 years in 121 ops, I'm not what they are looking for to sit F/O reserve in EWR, then get furloughed.

What I should have done is take dad's advice years ago and get into computer science or engineering management. But no, those magnificent flying machines were just too cool.

 

[febtober]

i was actually defending your job choice. i was simply saying that pilots complaining about pay is ridiculous. there are many jobs out there that pay better, find one. the job market for pilots will not bear higher wages, supply of pilots is far above demand so either enjoy the job or get another one. you seem happy with VA and its crazy that people would complain about what YOU get paid at a job THEY dont have

 

[UALjan15]

....its crazy that people would complain about what YOU get paid at a job THEY dont have

It's not really that crazy. It's been pretty well documented in this industry that when you go to the mat with management for higher pay in contract negotiations, they pull out a powerpoint slide showing all of the lower paying airlines there. They will whine and complain about giving airline X a "competitive advantage" in labor costs, and then paint the picture about how that will slow growth and upgrades, risk bankruptcy, etc. Do I really need to explain this?

So.....yes, we do care what you get paid. It matters to everyone.

 

[waveflyer]

It's not really that crazy. It's been pretty well documented in this industry that when you go to the mat with management for higher pay in contract negotiations, they pull out a powerpoint slide showing all of the lower paying airlines there. They will whine and complain about giving airline X a "competitive advantage" in labor costs, and then paint the picture about how that will slow growth and upgrades, risk bankruptcy, etc. Do I really need to explain this?

So.....yes, we do care what you get paid. It matters to everyone.

If you really cared, you wouldn't give away your flying to disenfranchised regional pilots. VA should get their rates up--- but you are the one who created a market of well qualified jet pilots for whom VA is a step up. If you looked out for the younger- you wouldnt have this problem.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you are quite senior and you have the desire to know how far you can fall... just look at first year working conditions, pay, bennies etc..... on your own property....

It is allot easier to control/influence something in house than hoping someone else will on theirs...

 

[waveflyer]

good point.
but major airline pilots directly control how much flying gets outsourced. that can only be brought back in house by major airline pilots.
but again- good point... raising the first few years of compensation is a good fix to our leverage problem

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well I am sure first pay at the majors is factored into the pay at VA....

The best way to get pay at VA up so it is not used against all pilots is to get our own pay up....