Logging training time in upt

[flylike44]

If I get the reserve slot I'm going for (fingers crossed), I'm wondering how my training hours will be logged. Since I already have my Comm A/MEL, will I get to log the time as dual recieved and PIC?

 

[thumper7]

hours log

No you will not. You will log them as student pilot time until you receive your military wings. You are stepping into a different world compared to civilian aviation.

Thumper

 

[AlbieF15]

I logged dual given for AMEL, turbojet, and TT.

For the few hours of solo time, I logged PIC in the same categories. Technically, PIC may be debatable on paper, but darn it SOMEBODY had to be flying that T-38 that day, and I figured as long as I was looping above Mississippi alone that meant it must have been me. Until you have your wings and a Form 8 instrument check, you don't log PIC except when solo. You won't have either of those until past UPT...

There may be other techniques, but FedEx and JetBlue didn't scoff my logbooks, so if that isn't "exactly" perfect it didn't get me bounced out of the interview.

Big picture for you...you'll get 200 or so turbine hours in UPT, but you've got YEARS to build time, experience, and quals prior to worrying about an outside job. Go concentrate on doing your best. Don't worry about what you will be doing in 4, 6, or 10 years....worry about still being in class NEXT FRIDAY! If you take it one day at a time, work hard, and have a little fun with your classmates, you'll be amazed who much you will learn and how fast those 52 weeks will fly by!

Good luck!

 

[talondriver]

When I fill out the af781 (flight hours form) I always designate the student as SP or student pilot and they log primary (dual)time. I always get the Instructor/PIC time . The solo student still designates him/herself as an SP and logs the primary time. The Air Force keeps track of your flight hours with the 781s. If you use your AF flying hours sheet (at an interview), your time may not match your self-kept log book if you log PIC time doing border patrol in the MOA. That could be a little thing the airlines may not see..or may take a little explaining.

 

[NWA-AirGuard]

Your pilot training time will show up on your military flight records in one column as "student time". It won't be split out to primary, secondary, instructor, etc. as all the flights after you get your wings are. The answer to your question depends on whether you're asking about your civilian log book or the military "log book" (i.e. form 781). The other guys answered for the 781 way. For your civilian log book, if you already have the multiengine rating then in your civilian log book you would log PIC and dual recieved. The PIC for an airline application would depend on what type of PIC the airline cares about. Most of the big airlines want PIC time that you "signed for the aircraft"(part 1 definition). So pilot training flights with an instructor would not fit that definition. Solo time would. Other airlines will have you put down the PIC in your log book (part 61.51). There is a big difference in the way military time is logged and the way you can log it in your civilian log book and then another difference in the way airlines want your hours on applications. Also, you may be applying for civilian flying jobs less than a year after pilot training if you're a part-time reservist.

 

[skyward80]

Wouldn't it just be easiest to log all military time in one logbook and civilian in another? When you're filling out apps later you can go over the military logbook using the FAA/airline definitions for everything and then combine that with time in your civilian logbook for a grand total of hours. This is where Excel or some of that logbook software comes in handy.

Skyward80

 

[AlbieF15]

NWA,

Not to "quibble" too much, but I'm not sure even if you have a MEL rating logging PIC while dual in UPT would be right.

I'm not an FAA lawyer type, but wouldn't a T-38 (or even a tweet) require a TYPE rating due to the gross weight if they were parked at your local FBO?

Point was moot for me as I did not have a MEL rating, so I just logged "dual given" in my log except for the solo time. As for concerns about 781s and logbooks matching...my technique was to simply put the 781 time in my logbook, without any conversion factors, etc. So...if it said 1.1 in the 781, the corresponding log entry was 1.1. I did the same thing with instrument, night, and sim instrument as well.

 

[skyward80]

T-37 and T-38 would require a type rating to be flown in the civ world because they are turbojet powered. However, I believe the T-6 would not require a type rating. Unless it is more than 12,500# MGTOW.


Skyward80

 

[talondriver]

The T-38C now weighs in at 12,700!! WOHOOO!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a student pilot with a ticket can log primary night or instrument time on the 781..?

 

[Spur]

Well, not sure about the other UPT bases, but at Vance all students log primary instrument time when in IMC conditions. But Im sure each base can do things differently. For example I've heard some bases log all night time as instrument time as well... Seems silly to log instrument time when your VFR.

Anyway, I would get a computer log book so you can have umpteen different categories to cover just about every conceivable way an airline would like to see your time.

 

[Vandal]

Thought type ratings were only for 12,500...I was wrong. So what skyward80 said would have to be accurate about the T-6 (If you had your high performance sign-off). But you would only be able to log dual given and TT for the t-37.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I think that the type rating requirement only applies to aircraft with a civilian certification, things like the C-12 (king air) or KC-135 (Boeing 707), if you are flying a military only plane like a fighter or bomber there is no civilian certification of the aircraft therefor no type rating. but if you get one of these as surplus military and use it as a civilian aircraft (most world war 2 fighters or the L-39 for example) then you need a "letter of authorization" from the FAA.
When you go to the FAA to convert from military to civilian pilot if you were authorized by the military to be PIC in an aircraft that has a civilian type rating you could get that type rating on your certificate like the B707, but if there isn't a civilian equal like the F-14 then no type rating for that plane

 

[skiddriver]

There are two issues here - using this time for another FAA certificate, and using it to get hired by a commercial carrier.

For FAA purposes (like getting your ATP) you can log time in UPT/Naval Flight Training if you hold the applicable civilian certificate, you hold the type rating if there is one, and the flight meets the requirements outlined in the FAR's (distance requirements for XC time for example). If there is no FAA type rating, you may log the time with just the applicable certificate. Don't forget the requirement to have a complex/high performance sign-off as well. That means, for example, that you can legally log your "pilot at the controls" time during training to meet the PIC requirements for an ATP if you hold the civilian certificate prior to starting UPT, and meet all other requirements outlined in the FAR's.

Listing this time on civilian airline applications is problematical, and does not follow the rules set out in the FAR's. Some companies will allow it some won't. United is the traditional example of a company that was extremely picky about this.

I would recommend keeping track of it to help you get the mins for your ATP (know what those flight time goal are), but keep your civilian and military records separate. I put mine in a database I created, but I guess there are some electronic logbook programs that can help you keep track. When it comes time for civilian applications, be conservative and understand what the company is looking for and will allow. You won't find that answer in the FAR's.

Good luck at UPT.