Logging Total Time

[wickedpilot]

I flew a Raven 44 (for the "experience" <- for all the whirleybird knockers) with a friend and want to log it with my total time. He's doesn't have a CFI, so obviously can' t throw it in the dual column but I consider it to be a training flight.

I'm not rotorcraft rated, Should/Can I log just the TT?

I've heard from several interviewees at the regional level, that interviewers should be able to add your multi time and single time and it equal your TT. If I logged the R44 time, the numbers wouldn't add up.???

Thanks for any advice

 

[Timebuilder]

I wouldn't.

If your friend wasn't an instructor, you'll have a hard time explaining why you had the controls, ignoring the fact that if you kept the thing in the air you might have a hiden talent for rotorcraft flying.

Call it a great experience, and wait until you start getting instruction to start logging the time.

I have so much unloggable time that it makes me sick. Nevertheless, unloggable is how it will stay.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

From TB:

"Nevertheless, unloggable is how it will stay."

I feel your pain.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Your helicopter flight, although perfectly fine (I don't understand Timebuilder's comment If your friend wasn't an instructor, you'll have a hard time explaining why you had the controls) simply =wasn't= a "logable" training flight under the FAR:

61.51(h): A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.

Is it "Total Time"? It's your logbook. You can log anything you want so long as it's not fraudulent. Fraudulent is a pretty strong word, but my practical answer is not to log anything that might raise questions. The FAA purpose of a logbook is to show flights that are necessary to show currency or qualification. That helicopter flight doesn't "count" for any FAA purpose, so, I'd leave it out of any FAA column.

On the other hand, a logbook =is= a personal diary of flight. If I were to get a chance to handle the control of an aircraft I wasn't rated for (I don't have an MEL for example), I'd definitely log it. But it would be in a column entitled something like "non-countable time or simply inthe comments without a time column and wouldn't end up being added to =any= of the other columns.

 

[bobbysamd]

Logging time

You can log anything you want any way you want, but if you have designs on a career I wouldn't let this time appear in your logbook. It might raise eyebrows for people in the know, and using it to count toward a certificate or rating would be bogus. The FARs are clear on the time you can or cannot log. Although you might regard it as a training flight, it cannot count that way because your friend is not a rotor CFI.

PS-The long and short of it is you went on a helicopter ride as a pax. If I had counted as flight time all my turbine pax time over the last thirty years I would have enough turbine time to have been hired long ago.

 

[eriknorth]

When having similar conversations with my instructor, he tells me that if it doesn't feel right logging it, then don't log it (after the prereqs of FARs, of course). One thing I really respect about him is his vigilance in logging. Try this one out: Let's say you are a flight that you could technically log, but you don't feel good about logging it. An example is flying right seat in a King Air and just watching the other pilot fly it. You don't set the autopilot, you don't even touch the controls, and you really don't feel like you "flew" the plane. If you were to always log this, what happens when you are in an interview and when he/she sees that you had a good amount of <insert plane here> time, they ask you a question about some of the systems or something that you would have know had you actually flown it, but since you didn't really, you would just look like you ae logging time that you didn't fly? The solution that sounds best to me is to log the time as 0.0, and in the remarks section, put the time that you flew it. This way, it doesn't count towards total time or anything, but you and anyone else can see that you did get something out of it, and in my opinion, you look like a lot better pilot for sticking to the book and logging well. Thoughts?

 

[cjh]

Forget adding it into your tt. There's just no legit way to do it.

However, you do want a record of the event, so why not make the entry - and the hours flown - in the remarks section only. It might make for interesting conversation, there's nothing illegal about you handling the controls, and after all, among other things, your logbook is a journal of your journeys in aviation.

 

[Timebuilder]

For those of you who didn't understand, allow me clarify my comments.

In order for this to count as a part of his total time, the time must also appear in some other category(s) in the logbook that explains the nature of that time.

His friend is not an instructor in the aircraft in question, therefore it isn't "training time" or as we used to say "dual received".

He himself is not rated in the aircraft, so he can neither log nor act as PIC, in as much as he could log PIC once endosed for solo flight by an authorized instructor. This is not the case.

He is on a pro pilot track, and his logbook will be reviewed. Someone will ask about the lack of a rotorcraft airman certificate or the lack of an authorized instructor signing for training for this time. He'll have trouble, "right here in river city", as they said in the Music Man.

As Jim just mentioned, it may be legal for him to have the controls (assuming that is a prerequisite for any kind of logging except SIC, instructor, or FE time) but if thigs go FUBAR, how would this be explained to an authority such as the NTSB or FAA? You know that this situation, although technically legal, would generate all kinds of FAR "triggers" in the aftermath of an accident or incident.

His enjoyable flight does not meet the requirements for logging or acting as PIC, and there is no SIC for this operation.

Where, I therefore ask, is the column that will explain that this flight is justified as a part of Total Time?

He could take a blank column, and call it "time I wish I had". I could fill a book with that time.

 

[jumppilot03]

Aside from the argument if you are albe to log it as total time or if it should be logged as dual, in order to log time in an aircraft it must have an "N" number. I am saying this because many experimental and homebuilt aircraft that I have seen dont have the number. Just a thought. -Jumppilot