logging time

[cforst513]

what are the rules for logging time? do you go by the hobbs meter or by a watch, when you plant your butt in the left seat. what are you allowed to log as time in your log book? *note: may be a dumb question, but it's out of curiosity. i am not a pilot... yet.

 

[User546]

Everyone goes off the Hobbs meter. And since your a new pilot, make sure your looking at the Hobbs, and NOT the Tach! You'll short change yourself a lot if you do that!

Once that engine comes alive, and until that engine shuts down, and that hobbs meter is working, you are in charge and in control of that airplane - and that is your loggable time.

 

[nosehair]

Federal Aviation Regulation Number 1.1 contains definitions of things like this.
Flight Time is defined as: "Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to a rest after landing."

That's the definition. There are many ways to interpret that, but in a general way, it is supposed to mean when you apply power on the take-off roll until you come to a stop after the landing roll. That definition worked back in the day when it was written, and most "Flying Fields" were just that: Fields. You cranked up in one corner of a field, did your run-up and took off - not much taxi time, or holding at the hold line. And when you landed and came to a rest, you were stopped.

But now, most people interpret that definition to mean when you first move under your own power to taxi for the purpose of flight, and continue through the after landing taxi to parking. And most people use the Hobbs meter, which starts at engine start and continues to engine shut-down which is not strictly in accordance with the more "popular" definition above. The Hobbs time includes after-start procedures like warm up, checking radios, getting clearance, etc., until you start taxi. But the Hobbs meter is a universally accepted way of measuring flight time.

BTW, the military uses the clock from take-off roll to after landing roll. That's true flight time.

 

[User546]

Here's another easy way to look at it:
"If it's billable, it's loggable!"

And thanks for the history lesson nosehair, that was interesting.

 

[nosehair]

thanks for the history lesson nosehair, that was interesting.

....yeah, it's history....

 

[Frmr Avro Drvr]

Federal Aviation Regulation Number 1.1 contains definitions of things like this.
Flight Time is defined as: "Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to a rest after landing."

It sounds like about the same definitition for accidents and incidents. Except it has to do with boarding the aircraft with intention of flight.

I would argue that the moment you leave the chocks using your engine (no one is pushing you) the "aircraft moves under it own power for the purpose of flight".

The Europeans log take-off roll to landing roll-out. I can't tell you how many times I have had European pilots ask me to right down the take-off time as we are rolling down the runway at 60 knots. If you ask me there is more to worry about at 60 knots than what the clock says. I digress. Sorry.

If I can be can have an accident on my record for bending metal or killing someone on my way to or from the runway, that time is going in my book as flight time.

 

[nosehair]

If I can be can have an accident on my record for bending metal or killing someone on my way to or from the runway, that time is going in my book as flight time.

Avro, I understand all of your (and everyone else) justifications, and rationale for wanting to log the whole trip as "flight time". As User997 said, "if it's billable, it's flight time."

You pay for it when you are first learning, and you get used to it. Then you get paid by it, and you can be held accountable for it, even before the engine starts, so it must be flight time.

But it really isn't, is it? How about Captain Time? That's what it should be called. Or pilot in command time, that would be true. From engine start to shutdown. But the Captain of a Ship isn't always at the Helm, is he?
Wouldn't you like to know how much "Wheel Time" he's gotten lately?

You know, if he spends too much time "politickin" around the ship, he'll lose control, so he needs to spend a certain amount of time "at the helm" to maintain a safe level of ship control.

I would prefer that we kept our true "flight time" exactly that, as time at the controls while manipulating them through air, thereby having a standard measure of essential flight control time.

Of course, that is just my preference. That's how we would do it, if I were King. I'm not, so I use the Hobbs, or whatever the Company Man says to.

 

[User546]

I see your point nosehair, but to add to it I look at it as this. Even though the Captain may not be flying the airplane, he is still ultimately in control and in command of that airplane. Anything starts going down, and now he's about to earn his lunch ticket. Just cause he's not flying the airplane up front, doesn't mean he's not monitoring the gauges, supervising the routing, talking on the radios, or making decisions which ultimately effect the well being of his flight.

I do agree that it'd be nice to have actual "wheel time" to be able to see some pilot's currency, but I don't think that should override the Total Time that goes in the logbook.

 

[nosehair]

but I don't think that should override the Total Time that goes in the logbook.

...aaah!, but I never said it should; just that it not be logged as "complex time" when the wheel being turned is not complex, it's jet. Jet wheels are different from prop wheels. 10,000 hours behind a jet and no time behind a prop does not make 10,000 hours "complex" time have any meaning,...uhh, in and of itself...