Logging Time Question

[User546]

Couple questions as it pertains to logging time.

1) What is a way that a person can log time (and what type of time) sitting right seat in an aircraft certified for single pilot ops?

2) Can a person log the time spent right seat in a pressurized aircraft without having a High Altitude Endoresement (assuming all other currency, and endoresments requirements are met)? Or is that endoresement only required if your going to log PIC time?

For the record, the aircraft in question here is a CitationJet.

I had another pilot friend ask me this the other day, and I've never been good with endoresements, so I want to make sure I give him the right answer.

 

[350DRIVER]

1) You cannot log the time in the CJ on any leg as PIC since it requires a type and I assume don't have the type. The only other way is that if the guy in the left seat has his MEI and you can have him sign your logbook as dual, I personally do not suggest doing this since you will get drilled on this plane/systems at an interview at some point down the line and it raises a big red flag. Sometimes it is better to just ride along and soak up the "experience" factor versus putting jet time in your logbook that may one day come back to bite you in the @ss. I assume the CJ is being operated under part 91...

2) That endorsement is not just a PIC reqt., it is also required for the other pilot when operating the larger aircraft but you are not required to be onboard so the point is merely a trivia one. A Lear F.O for example (that is not acting as PIC) must have this endorsement to be able to log the time since the aircraft is operated at high altitudes.


note, the insurance reqts. do not over-ride aircraft type certification or FAR's. Be careful on how you go about logging this time.

3 5 0

 

[hawkerguy]

Just to clarify

The only thing I would ad, to make it clear is: If you do have a high alt. endorsement, 3 t/o's and landings and familiarity with the systems of the aircraft, you can log totally legit jet SIC time all day long. Just cause it's certified for single pilot ops doesn't mean the owner is operating the aircraft that way, you can absolutely log SIC jet time in that airplane as long as you're qualified.

 

[Wiggums]

2) That endorsement is not just a PIC reqt., it is also required for the other pilot when operating the larger aircraft but you are not required to be onboard so the point is merely a trivia one. A Lear F.O for example (that is not acting as PIC) must have this endorsement to be able to log the time since the aircraft is operated at high altitudes.

I'm just not seeing where a SIC needs a high-alt endorsement. In 61.31g, that you need the endorsement to act as a PIC, no mention a requirement for SIC. 61.51f talks about logging SIC time; basically it says that you need to meet the requirements of 61.55. If you get a checkout that complies with 61.55 you will get most of the same info required for a high-alt endorsement, however, it doesn't specifically say you need the endorsement.


I know that our FOs don’t get a high-alt endorsement during training.

 

[English]

Does the PIC of the Citationjet in question have the 525S type, or the 525 (plain-vanilla, crew) type? If he/she has the 525 type, with no S after it, then an SIC is REQUIRED, part 91 or 135. So, you'd be able to log the time as SIC if you had the 3 takeoffs and landings, familiarity with the systems, etc. If the PIC has the 525 type, with no S on it, and also has an MEI, then he/she could sit in either seat and give you dual instruction from either seat, part 91 only. If the PIC has the 525S type, he/she MUST sit in the left seat unless utililizing the crew privileges of the type. To use the crew privileges, the other crew member must be a qualified SIC (part 91, 3 takeoffs and landings, familiarity with systems) or be typed in the aircraft.

There are several other examples including part 135, but that doesn't seem to be the case you are asking about, so I left those circumstances out of the examples above.