Logging time question in C-208

[cougar6903]

Can someone log SIC time in a Cessna 208 Caravan if it is a privately owned Part 91 airplane? Is this legal? Under what conditions is this legal?

 

[ILLINI]

Nice Avatar!!!!!!!!



But to answer your question, no you cannot log SIC time in a van. The plane only requires one pilot and is certified for single pilot operations. Some people may argue that if the insurance company requires two pilots, you may log the time as SIC. However, I disagree with this practice and would not log time in this way. The only way I can see two pilots logging time in a van is if one of them is an instructor and providing instruction to another pilot. Then the CFI can log PIC dual given and the "student" can log PIC as dual recieved. This can only be done on Part 91 legs... not 135 or 121.

 

[cougar6903]

The owners pilot, who offered me the right seat told me that it can be logged as SIC if he is under the hood. Also, if I am the sole manipulator of the controlls and am rated in the airplane I could log it as PIC. Is this true?

 

[ILLINI]

Sorta... This is yet another way for you to both log time. If you are the safety pilot for your friend who is under the hood, you can both log PIC time... assuming you are both certified in catagory and class. There is no way to log SIC time in a van that I know of.


As long as you are certified for airplane single engine land (or water if the van is on floats) you can log all time during which you are sole manipulator of the controls as PIC. You must also have a high performance sign off to act as PIC in the van b/c it has either 600 or 675 HP for the PT6 engines.

 

[Stephen]

OK, what about a Pilatus PC12 being operated under part 91 by a fractional ownership company? The plane is still a single pilot aircraft, but flown by 2 pilots. What are those SICs logging?

 

[cvsfly]

C-208, 207, 206, 205, 182, etc. PC-12, BE-90, BE-200 anything that is Type cert . single-pilot operating under 91 there is no SIC time unless you want to follow the above examples. I just wouldn't recommending showing that logbook to a potential employer with C-208 SIC time.

 

[ILLINI]

Think about it... the Cessna 172 you fly is certified as single pilot. Would you ever log SIC time in that plane? No. The Caravan and PC-12 are the same thing. The fact that it is a turboprop doesn't mean anything as far as logging time.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

In my personal opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion) logging time as a safety pilot is worthless time. Also logging time as a CFI giving "instruction" to your buddy in a twin when you both know how to fly it already is worthless. If I were in charge of hiring someone for a job under Part 91, Part 135, or Part 121 every one of those hours would be thrown out for consideration. Of course this is all my opinion and there have been numerous legal discourses allowing logging of this type of time. But some time is real experience and other time is total crap. If I were you I'd go ahead and fly with that guy in his C-208 and be his safety pilot. Learn all you can in that airplane, even see if he'll let you fly it. But I would never log the safety pilot time even though it is "legal", but that's just me. On a side note, some operators have SICs for their Part 135 operations in airplanes that only require one pilot on the type certificate: Cheiftains, BE-99, etc. This time is legal to log as SIC, but in my personal opinion, if an airplane can be flown just fine with one pilot then the only reason the SIC is there is so he can pay the operator money so that the pilot can add that worthless SIC time to his logbook. It's legal but like the other examples, not worth much in my opinion.

 

[cougar6903]

SkyWestCRJPilot,


Thanks for your relply, but how would having say 50 hours of safety pilot/PIC time in a 208 not be worth anything? If I were up against someone with the same qual's and I had the 50 hours in the 208 already wouldn't I have an edge over him? I though that those first few hours would be the most valuable, getting you at least some experiance in type??

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Let's say I were interviewing you as well as the next guy (this is just my opinion again). I would see your 50 hours as safety pilot in a C-208 then I would look at the next pilot with the same total hours but 50 PIC hours of C-210 time as sole manipulator of the controls. I would hire the other guy. Personally I dislike safety pilot time and any other time used to log hours using creative but "legal" means. That's just me and another pilot may think differently. It's kind of like me jumpseating on Delta's 757 and gaining a lot of experience by learning about that airplane. I can learn a lot and experience being in the cockpit, but I don't log that time. Granted, as a safety pilot you are required to be there but required to look out the window only. The regs say you have to be a properly rated pilot to be a safety pilot but anyone can look out a window. Plus you can't log all of the time, just the time under the hood, i.e. taxi time can't be included unless he taxis under the hood. That would be interesting to see though. Again all of this is just my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree.

 

[metrofo]

If you are planning on logging SIC time in a c-208, just make sure you can show in your logbook that you revieved approved training and an approved checkride for that airplane. As long as you have those items, you are well within reason to log SIC time in an aircraft only type certified for single pilot. If i were in charge of hiring pilots, I would only question this time if you had no record of ever being trained to fly that airplane. Part 91 or 135 or 121, I dont care. If you are going to expect me to believe you were acting as a contributory member of that crew, you better be able to show me that you were trained to do so. That also includes any follow-up training required on an annual or semi-annual basis.

 

[metrofo]

One more thing, There are some obvious underhanded , but legal, ways to log flight time that some people have mentioned her (safety pilot , sole manipulator, etc). But if you want to log time as SIC, you need to technically have one of two things. Either an aircraft that requires two pilots by type certification, or an ops specs that rerquires two pilots for operational or safety reasons. Since 91 operators dont use ops specs, having the required initial and annual training should suffice to any future employer as to the validity of your logbook. Especially if you both trained together as a crew and that training included CRM. IN that case, you are golden and nobody will ever question that 208 time of yours. So, in my opinion, if that 208 seat is being offered to you on a regular basis, and there is an opportunity to get a good amount of flight time in the thing, see if this operator will send you to Flight Safety with the other guy the next time he (or she) goes. Even if they wont pay for your training, it might be worth it to you to pay for it yourself.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I wouldnt go anywhere with 50 hours SIC logged in a Caravan!!!!!!
You may get some pretty strange looks and an interviewer who decides to look a LITTLE harder at your logbook, if at all.

DONT log SIC time in a plane that does not require one. Its that simple. You log anything you want, its just an honor system....log 9000 hours SIC in a Pilatus, no one cares.....just think about what the much more experienced guy looking at your book is gonna think.
(SIC time in a Caravan = JACKASS)

 

[boxcar]

Don't ever log SIC time in an airplane that doesn't require an SIC. It's like a neon light that casts doubt on your entire logbook. However, if you're building time, don't pass up an opportunity to log time as a safety pilot. Make a preflight agreement that you're going to be the PIC and log the time as PIC. The person under the hood can log PIC time as sole manipulator. It's legal and it's ethical. If a future interviewer happens to review both logbooks at the same time, he/she might want an explanation. In the unlikely event this happens, just be truthful.