Logging time as CFI

[cougar6903]

I’ve got 2 scenarios which I need some help with. I am a CFII/MEI, but am not multi current.

• A guy at the airport has a Cessna 310 and needs to fly some approaches for currency. I have a CFII MEI, but 0 hours in 310’s. As I read the regs I can not give him Dual because I don’t have the 5 hours PIC. Can I still act as a Safety pilot even though I’m not multi current? Do I log it as PIC?

• Another guy just purchased a Stinson 108 tailwheel. I am a CFI but don’t have the tailwheel endorsement myself. He has the endorsement and is current to act as PIC. He is working towards his Commercial. Can I give him instruction on commercial maneuvers without having the tailwheel endorsement myself if he will act as PIC? How do I log it?

Thanks for the help guys.
Steve

 

[flyguy81]

for no. 1, you only have to have the 5 hrs in type if the training is being used toward a rating....if he's just wanting to get instrument current or build time you do not need the 5 hours. As for the currency, go do 3 bounces before you shoot approaches in a duchess or whatever you have access to before you go fly. Once you're multi current you can log PIC, dual given for the whole flight.

For no. 2, pretty sure you'd have to have a tailwheel endorsement to give instruction in a tailwheel aircraft. You could run the same scenario with a high performance aircraft, high altitude aircraft, or any other type of aircraft you don't have a rating for.....Iif you don't qualify to log it, you can't give dual in it, would be like a CFI trying to give dual in a twin when he doesn't have his MEI. A CFI can log PIC while acting as an instructor, can't log PIC in a tailwheel or any other aircraft needing an endorsement if you don't have the endorsement yourself.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

I’ve got 2 scenarios which I need some help with. I am a CFII/MEI, but am not multi current.

• A guy at the airport has a Cessna 310 and needs to fly some approaches for currency. I have a CFII MEI, but 0 hours in 310’s. As I read the regs I can not give him Dual because I don’t have the 5 hours PIC. Can I still act as a Safety pilot even though I’m not multi current? Do I log it as PIC?

• Another guy just purchased a Stinson 108 tailwheel. I am a CFI but don’t have the tailwheel endorsement myself. He has the endorsement and is current to act as PIC. He is working towards his Commercial. Can I give him instruction on commercial maneuvers without having the tailwheel endorsement myself if he will act as PIC? How do I log it?

Sure can. Remember the tailwheal endorsement is to ACT as PIC. Simply being the instructor does not make you the PIC, since the student is current and "rated" in the aircraft.
Thanks for the help guys.
Steve

Hope this helps..

 

[midlifeflyer]

[A guy at the airport has a Cessna 310 and needs to fly some approaches for currency. I have a CFII MEI, but 0 hours in 310’s. As I read the regs I can not give him Dual because I don’t have the 5 hours PIC. Can I still act as a Safety pilot even though I’m not multi current? Do I log it as PIC?

All you need to act as a safety pilot is caterory and class ratings and a current medical. But you can only log PIC as a safety pilot if you are also acting as PIC.

Are you? Are you wiling to take on the responsibility of PIC in an airplane in which you have little or no experience? Is the owner of a 310 in which you have no experience willing to put you in charge and risk voiding his insurance in case of an accident?

Another guy just purchased a Stinson 108 tailwheel. I am a CFI but don’t have the tailwheel endorsement myself. He has the endorsement and is current to act as PIC. He is working towards his Commercial. Can I give him instruction on commercial maneuvers without having the tailwheel endorsement myself if he will act as PIC? How do I log it?

DC8 is right. There's no requirement for a CFI to give instruction in a tailwheel to have the endorsement, so long as someone else in the airplane is PIC. And you get to log it as PIC because you're acting as an instructor.

But the same question as the other scenario. Suppose there is an accident. Are you willing to explain to the FAA what you were doing giving instruction in an airplane you were not qualified to fly? If you are comfortable with your answer, go ahead.

 

[midlifeflyer]

f would be like a CFI trying to give dual in a twin when he doesn't have his MEI.

Not quite. The CFI withou the MEI is missing the proper =rating=. A tailwheel endorsement is not a rating.

That's not just semantics. Many of the most common minunderstandings about loging flight time under 61.51 are based in confusion over the difference between the two terms.

 

[cougar6903]

All you need to act as a safety pilot is caterory and class ratings and a current medical. But you can only log PIC as a safety pilot if you are also acting as PIC.

Are you? Are you wiling to take on the responsibility of PIC in an airplane in which you have little or no experience? Is the owner of a 310 in which you have no experience willing to put you in charge and risk voiding his insurance in case of an accident?

.

Thanks for the feedback guys. As far as being the safety pilot in the 310, If i dont have the 3 t/o's and landings in 90 days and cant log PIC, how do I log it? Is it total only? I'm not looking to pad my logbook, but this fellow needs to get current and I'm the only one around. If Im legal to go as his safety pilot I'd just like to know the proper way to record it.

I'm not sure if I would want to give him dual without the 5 hours PIC. What happens if he chooses to go for his ATP and uses the flight I did with him towards that rating?

 

[flyguy81]

wouldn't matter because the flight you're going on is not for furtherance of a rating. If you're not grading him on ATP standards or whatever, then you don't need the 5 hours. If all you're doing is being a safety pilot, then it's not for furtherance of a rating or certificate. Just go do 3 TO/LDGS and then you won't have to figure out how to log anything.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks for the feedback guys. As far as being the safety pilot in the 310, If I don't have the 3 t/o's and landings in 90 days and cant log PIC, how do I log it? Is it total only? I'm not looking to pad my logbook, but this fellow needs to get current and I'm the only one around. If Im legal to go as his safety pilot I'd just like to know the proper way to record it.

If you want you can legitimately log it as SIC (you are second in command of a flight that requires more than one pilot).

If you don't want to keep track of "that kind" of SIC, I'd just log it as AMEL and total time and put an explanatory note in the remarks that I was acting as a safety pilot (the note is just to explain a question about how you logged total time without putting a number in another 61.51 piloting time column).

 

[Steve]

Anyone else have input on the subject?

 

[Steve]

Founf this in an old thread

Q&A-641 October 5, 2004

QUESTION: A person holds a Flight Instructor Certificate - Instrument Airplane only and wants to give instrument flight training on avionics in a multiengine land airplane (for example in a Cessna 310). The training that the flight instructor will be giving is not for the purpose of furtherance of a pilot certificate or rating. The training is merely for educational/informative purposes. The instrument flight training will be on: Air Traffic Control Clearances and Procedures - Holding Procedures; Navigation Systems - Intercepting and Tracking Navigational Systems and DMC ARCs; and Emergency Operations - Loss of Communications and Loss of Gyro Attitude and/or Heading Indicators.

What are the flight instructor certificate and ratings, pilot certificate and ratings, and flight experience the person must have to be in compliance with § 61.195(b) and (c)? Does the flight instructor have to have logged 5 hours of PIC flight experience in the Cessna 310?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.195(b), (c), and (f); The person must hold at least the following:

Flight Instructor Certificate
Instrument-Airplane
&
Commercial Pilot Certificate
Instrument-Airplane
Airplane Multiengine Land

or

ATP Certificate
Airplane Multiengine Land

The flight instructor would only have to have logged 5 hours PIC flight time in a Cessna 310 if the training was for the furtherance of a certificate or rating. Since you specifically stated in your question that the training was not for the furtherance of a certificate or rating but was for merely for educational/informative purposes, then the answer is no, the flight instructor would not need to have logged 5 hours PIC flight time in a Cessna 310.