Logging some Navajo time

[maverick_fp00]

Well, here's the deal. I have around 250hrs total and I just got my multi about 2 weeks ago. For the past year or so I've been in the right seat of a Navajo and I'd fly the dead legs from the right seat (all part 91 I might add). Now that I have my multi, I want to be log it whenever I fly. If somebody (either FAA or somebody at a job interview down the road) looks at my logbook and see this guy with 250 hours total time logging PIC in a Navajo, it just won't look right. Should I just log it anyway because I'm not breaking any regs?... if I went to SimCom for the Initial Navajo course, would that be worth the $3500 to spend if I'm not even in the left seat? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick Kitchen

 

[tcoll777]

I don't think you should bother with the course. Just log the time and be ready to answer questions about the aircraft durring an interview. Learn the systems, procedures, speeds, etc......

 

[Freight Dog]

I second that.. log the time, however, grab the POH and learn Navajo inside out. It's not that difficult of an airplane to learn. So when an interviewer asks you about it, you'll know the systems and your time is legit. Secondly, by flying and logging the time on 91 legs, you may be able to meet various operators' insurance requirements for time in type so down the road you may look pretty darn attractive to employers who fly Navajos or Chieftains.

The key is... study and know that airplane inside out.


Good luck to ya!

 

[maverick_fp00]

Yea, learning the plane - I've already started on that. I want to know about the plane that I'm flying. Thanks for the responses.

-Nick

 

[350DRIVER]

I agree with the above completely and don't think that you would be in any trouble at any point during future interviews. Save your money and study the aircraft's systems, speeds, procedures,etc, etc, etc, on your own. I would mark anything that you are unsure of and ask the captain for clarification.

Don't worry so much about the logging of time factor since a good pen could take care of that very easily instead be concerned with the E X P E R I E N C E factor that you will or should be able to obtain. I don't think "time" means too much, what you were able to "experience" while in the right seat is what counts. Learn as much as possible and take full advantage of the opportunity that you have...

congrats on the multi-

C H E E R S

3 5 0

 

[Timebuilder]

For the past year or so I've been in the right seat of a Navajo and I'd fly the dead legs from the right seat (all part 91 I might add). Now that I have my multi, I want to be log it whenever I fly.

So, each dead leg you flew as sole manipulator was singed off as dual received by the PIC, right? Your ability to log that time at all BEFORE you passed you multi ride is predicated on the idea that you were receiving instruction.

Yes, know your systems. The Nav isn't much more complicated than a Seneca, and I don't think an interviewer expects a new Navajo pilot to be the part 1 PIC. At this stage, part 61 PIC should be just fine.

You are fortunate to have had this experience with your low total time. Now, build on it!!

 

[TurboS7]

Just after takeoff you are in a nice old new PA-31-350 clean at 1000 feet and you loose both engines. You have just taken off of KEF so you only have 32F water in front of you, what will you do.
P.S. No survival suits on-board.

 

[maverick_fp00]

The guy that I'm flying the Navajo with was at SimCom a few months ago and the instructor killed both engines at I think 700 feet and my friend landed the plane in the water with the gear up in front of him. The instructor started the sim over and was able to turn the plane all the way around and land on the opposite runway.

Timebuilder:
The captain isn't an MEI anymore, he let it expire. So, before I had my multi I wasn't logging any of that time.

 

[Timebuilder]

700 AGL? Wow.

I'm sorry he wasn't able to sign off that flying as dual given. You should be fine logging PIC in a piston twin under part 61 now that you have the multiengine rating.

I mentioned this in a post a few months ago, but low time twin pilots (like myself) can benefit from reading the NTSB account of this accident in Bern Township, outside the boundary of the Reading Regional Airport.

Accident

Vmc roll? I have heard speculation to the contrary.

 

[KingAirer]

To answer ur question Turbo...The answer is to Eject, get goose and wait for the helicopter

 

[jetdriven]

Just after takeoff you are in a nice old new PA-31-350 clean at 1000 feet and you loose both engines. You have just taken off of KEF so you only have 32F water in front of you, what will you do.

well the engine failure dual simultaneous sounds like you took off on the aux tanks again. OR you had the mixtures lean on the ground so it'll run and forgot to richen them up again. (done that too) Mixtures full RICH, Emergency boost pumps ON, switch tanks (back to MAINS), and if all else fails be sure to open the pilot door before ditching and land with 1/2 flaps!!

has anyone else been able to shut the pilot door while in flight??

 

[TurboS7]

We went through this a few months ago,....get the gear down then feather both props at the same time do a 180 and land. If you ditch in the water you have just cooked your goose, you will live only 5 minutes and the life perserver will just help the coast guard find your body. I would rather fly the North Atlantic in the winter, if anything happens I won't have to suffer so long.Of course do all of the above as you stated, but we'll assume both oil pressures have gone to zero.

 

[A Squared]

>>>> we'll assume both oil pressures have gone to zero.

Rather unlikely to have them both go south simultaneously ... but if it did happen, it would simplify your task, as both props would likely feather, and you wouldn't have to worry about when to put the gear down as you wouldn't have hydraulics .... unless you *want* to pump the gear down by hand while flying a low level deadstick 180 degree turn ........

 

[TurboS7]

If I remember right the McCauley won't feather if you loose oil pressure only the Hartzell does. Time to get avbug in on this one.

 

[A Squared]

If I remember right the McCauley won't feather if you loose oil pressure only the Hartzell does. Time to get avbug in on this one.

I think that you'll find that the propellers installed on most light recip twins whether Brand M or Brand H will feather on complete loss of oil pressure to the prop. The blades are driven toward Fx by a spring and counterweights. In normal operation, oil is ported to these props to move the blades to low pitch, and released to move toward high pitch. Generally, (there may be exceptions) the props (both brands) installed on light single engine recip airplanes will go toward low pitch when oil pressure is lost.

regards

 

[TurboS7]

I agree both brands go to low pitch but one feathers and the other doesn't , at this point I am too lazy to take the time to figure it out.

 

[A Squared]

>>>>>I agree both brands go to low pitch but one feathers and the other doesn't

Hmmm, I'm looking at an Powerplant textbook which has cutaway diagrams of both Hartzell and McCauley feathering props for recip engines showing how each mechanism works. Each diagram is accompanied by text describing the operation of each, and both descriptions explain how the prop is feathered by the feathering spring and counterweights when the governor releases the oil pressure to the prop. Hartzell also manufactures props which incorperate a compressed nitrogen charge to help feather the blades.

I suppose that there may be some McCauley props which won't feather when oil pressure to the prop is lost, but it's not true that all McCauley props are like that

ISBN 1-56027-154-x pp 656-659 if you're interested

regards