logging sim time

[munson]

this is actually two questions: 1. Does sim time count toward total time. We get alot of sim time in the military, and i only have a few hours sim time civilian. Some of the time they counted it toward my total time, and other times they did not. Just trying to get a little clarification so that I can get everything in order in my logbook. 2. I have a single engine commercial that i got through military equivalency tests, but not a multi even though i have over a 1000 multi time. I am going to get my ATP in a few weeks and was wondering if getting an ATP in a multi would cover me not having a commericial multi since the ATP supersceeds the commercial ticket, or do i still have to have to get a multi endorsement on the commercial. If so, is it just as easy as getting the same examiner to lift the single engine requirement since the ATP is in a multi? I checked around for getting a multi commercial and they wanted something like 2500 duckets for it, but I can get the ATP for around 1300. Makes no sense to me. Thanks for the help

 

[midlifeflyer]

this is actually two questions: 1. Does sim time count toward total time.

I'll stick with this one. Personal FAQ:

"Total Time" isn't really defined in the FAR. When the term is used, it's not alone. For example, the 61.159 aeronautical experience requirements for the ATP include "at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot" So there's really no such thing as "TT" standing by itself.

It's usually combined with either "pilot time" or "flight time". And there is a definite difference between these two terms.

"Pilot time" is defined in 61.1(b)(12) specifically includes simulator time.
==============================
that time in which a person -
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
==============================

On the other hand, "flight time" is defined in FAR 1 as
==============================
Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
==============================

That doesn't include simulators. Even the best of them are still not "aircraft"

The logbooks I've seen don't have a column for "total time" or "total pilot time". They do have a column for total "flight" time or "Total duration of flight" and sim or FTD time doesn't belong there. Want to track total pilot time? Add a column and go ahead. It counts for something.

 

[Rogue5]

My logbook's (Jeppesen "Professional Pilot Log") version of "total time" is a column labelled "Total duration of flight" which in my mind means "flight time."

SIM time is not flight time.

I log SIM time in a column labelled "Flight Simulator" which is not added to any other time in my book. The only reason I log it is to show currency (PC rides & IFR recency of experience).

BTW, the only time I have logged there is level-D full motion SIM, not any of that FTD stuff (in which I've got plenty of time but is absent in the logbook).

As to the multi question: get the multi ATP and your cert will say ATP MEL with type (if applicable) and Commercial SEL. Most employers could not care less about the SEL rating, unless you're flying a SEL which would require ATP privs. Basically, to answer your question, an ATP MEL does indeed superceed a CMEL, so your bases are covered...

 

[wheelsup]

BTW, the only time I have logged there is level-D full motion SIM, not any of that FTD stuff (in which I've got plenty of time but is absent in the logbook).

Keep in mind some people HAVE to log that FTD time - and there's nothing wrong with it. The FAA allows up to xx% of your total dual instrument training (don't know the 61 stuff, I think its around 40 hours or something) to be logged in a sim. The only way to show it is in your logbook...

If you were to do a IPC in a sim (not level D) you need to log that time. I agree though that it should be under the Sim or FTD or Ground Simulator or whatever your logbook has.

~wheelsup

 

[avbug]

Wheelsup,


While simulator and FTD time can be used to meet the total experience requirements of a particular certificate or rating, it still isn't flight time, and shouldn't be shown as such. For example, a pilot who has used 2.5 hours of "simulator" training toward the requisite 40 hours of a private pilot certificate should show 37.5 hours of pilot experience and 2.5 hours of "simulator" on the 8710.

The simulator time must be logged and signed off by an appropriately rated instructor, but your assertion may be misleading to some in that they might be under the misapprehension that the time must be shown as "total time," when in fact it isn't, and need not be.