logging sim time

[saviboy]

Hi
how do you guys log simulator time? An instructor frind of mine logs it as dual given. I have seen somebody who had to re write her logbook because her instructor had logged her sim time in the dual given column.
Any opinions?

 

[Flechas]

Log it only as sim time, not TT, not multi, only sim time and approaches.

 

[JB74]

One of my CFIs (flight safety grad) had logged all his sim time as multi and total. Can't wait until he gets to an interview and whips out that logbook

 

[nosehair]

I have seen somebody who had to re write her logbook because her instructor had logged her sim time in the dual given column.

The only way sim time counts (towards certification requirements) is if it is with an "authorized instructor". How can it NOT be dual given? No, it does not count as any aircraft time, but it can meet some of the required instrument time if given by an authorized instructor. Look at 61.65(e)

 

[midlifeflyer]

Hi
how do you guys log simulator time? An instructor frind of mine logs it as dual given. I have seen somebody who had to re write her logbook because her instructor had logged her sim time in the dual given column.
Any opinions?

No. No "opinion". Just a FAR

61.1(b)(16):
==================================================
Training time means training received -
(I) In flight from an authorized instructor;
(ii) On the ground from an authorized instructor; or
(iii) In a flight simulator or flight training device from an authorized instructor.
==================================================

Sigh.

 

[JAFI]

Not that it really matters, I wonder if he is not in a simulator but a Flight Training Device. A Flight Simulator is a FULL Motion training device (not an aircraft so - no logging airplane time) and is certified with an A, B, C, or D level of fidelity. A Flight Training Device (also not an aircraft) is certified with a number (1 thru 9) does not have motion, may not have visual, etc. All are certified and approved. Simulators are certified every year. Flight training Devices are certified on a schedule set by the AC...

The "what to log" question was answered by several posts.

JAFI

 

[abaile]

Its probably been beaten to death by now, by I think I have a decent answer to the question. Its a bit complicated which Im sure everyone can already tell. In most logbooks, if you look under the "As Flight Instructor" column, that also underlies the "Conditions of Flight" column. I have alot of time instructing in FTD so I was very interested in this too. FTD or sim instruction can be logged as dual given time, but from what Ive come up with, it's simulator dual given, not flight dual given. So when an airline or anyone else for that matters asks for total flight time, and one of them is "Dual Given", you can't include the sim time because they specifically ask for flight time. Maybe that clears things up but maybe I made it more complicated. I don't know.

 

[nosehair]

FTD or sim instruction can be logged as dual given time, but from what Ive come up with, it's simulator dual given, not flight dual given. So when an airline or anyone else for that matters asks for total flight time, and one of them is "Dual Given", you can't include the sim time because they specifically ask for flight time.

Good point. I would suggest that you keep a SEPERATE logbook with all your sim ot ftd time. It is valuable training time, but should not be factored into flight time.

 

[Flyguy2k8]

As a Simulator instructor here at ERAU, we log it as "Dual Received" as per FAA allowance. It used to be logged as something else, but I am not familiar with that. However now we log it "Dual Received" but not towards total time

 

[avbug]

Simulator time isn't flight time. Log it in the simulator only column in your logbook. Classify it whatever way you wish, but don't include it in any other columns.


A good policy is to keep your logbook such that your PIC time, plus SIC time, plus instruction received equals total time. This is a clean way to show your classifications, and requires little or no explaination. If you receive an hour of simulator instruction, log it as instruction received, for that's what it is. Just don't show it as instruction received at the bottom of the page. It will pollute the concept of keeping instruction received plus PIC plus SIC equalling total time.

Classify the time however, you want in your line-item entry, just don't pollute the totals at the bottom of the page. Simulator time, like flight engineer time, shouldn't appear in any other totals in your logbook...not instruction received, not class (multi engine, single engine etc), not total (it's not flight time), etc. It should have it's own column in the logbook, the total of which does not affect or influence any other coumn or total.

 

[Flyguy2k8]

I absolutely concur with the above. It makes it hard when you try to interview. Sim time is just that....SIM time!

 

[MarineGrunt]

I log approaches (for currency) and simulated instrument from all my sims. Other than that... nuthin.

 

[Lil Jon]

the column in my jepp logbook says FLIGHT SIMULATOR......duhhrrr

 

[nosehair]

If you receive an hour of simulator instruction, log it as instruction received, for that's what it is. Just don't show it as instruction received at the bottom of the page. It will pollute the concept of keeping instruction received plus PIC plus SIC equalling total time.

...and that's your personal concept of keeping things in order in your mind, and that's ok for you.

I, however, would rather see "instruction received" as a total. It is instruction received. Why do you want to put the simulator out in far left field like a ba$tard child? Simulators and FTD's legally replace required instruction for certificates and ratings. If an approved program requires (for example) 30 hours of instruction, 20 of which can be in a sim/FTD and you don't carry the sim instruction in total instruction, you are coming up short in the required instruction.

Maybe you guys are talking about sim time AFTER certification, which would make a little more sense. Do what you want with that. There's a big difference in required instruction for a certificate or rating, and instruction for currency or advanced qualifications.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's really a personal preference, I think I see where AvBug is coning from. t's not a logging issue; it's a math issue. The key is being able to separate it out for totals - to keep "flight time" separate from non "flight time." It's really just a matter of addition or subtraction.

If you log sim time in, say, the simulated instrument column, then total instrument flight time = actual + simulated - sim/FTD.

If you only log sim/FTD in it's own column, then "flight time" is what appears in the totals and you add the sim/FTD time for the few times that you are looking for it.

As you say, it doesn't matter which way you do it, so long as the method remains consistent.

 

[flybrowntails]

i say log it however you wish. if you want to log it as FE time or log it as SE sea time do it. it's your logbook--

the only problem is if you need the sim hours for currency (landings, approaches...)you need to have a record of it. If employed with an airline, most keep acurate records of this. You may also need the time for an additional type or rating.

my logbook has a column for sim time that i log ftd and sim in (only this column).

So remember frasca 142 ftd could = pic heavy jet time in your logbook

 

[Cosmo1999]

I think this horse is officially dead but honestly how does extra dual given help out at all anyways? Airlines are looking for total time, multi time, instrument time, experience in different AIRCRAFT types. None of them could care a less if you even had a couple hundred hours in a full motion sim. Also notice when requirements are listed for any pilot job the dual given required is 0; unless its a CFI job of course. Dual given is just a way to enhance your resume a bit saying I didnt just hop around for 700 hours after I got my commercial I actually spent it teaching other people how to fly. Keep it simple, for students log it under simulator time, for instructors dont log it at all cause it isnt going to help unless you apply to be a sim instructor somewhere.

 

[abaile]

logging of flight simulator time all depends on the type of logbook you posess. Most logbooks have a separate column for flight simulator time. This time also counts as dual recieved or given depending on your role. It depends on your personal preference in logging time in your logbook. Most logbooks have DUAL RECIEVED under TYPE OF PILOTING TIME which generally is recieved in an aircraft. If you are instructing and you want to count your instruction given in an FTD I would create another column as FTD dual given to keep your total flight instruction time separate from actual aircraft instruction.

Most FBOs or Airlines want total flight dual given, which would not include FTD instruction time since it is not total flight time.

Hope that helps.