logging right seat in a twin cessna?

[avbug]

The only folks who would question such flight experience are those without the experience to know better.

A Squared already noted that no OpSpec addresses the issue of a second in command instead of an autopilot. The OpSpec authorization is for an autopilot in lieu of a SIC. Folks keep referring back to OpSpecs as some justification; there isn't any, and it isn't necessary.

14 CFR 135 is all the justification you need; it's spelled out there in unmistakable clarity. Nothing questionable about it. Are you insinuating that an employer might find following the regulation questionable??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Perhaps if the applicant tried to pass off 135 SIC as smoething more....like PIC......

I logged lots of time like this...

2.0 flight time CE-310.
I flew 1.0 as PIC.
Other pilot flew 1.0 as PIC.
But I logged 2.0 in the multi column.

So hot to get that multi time, I justifed shady logging...

I went back and did a massvie audit. Wish I did it right the first time....

 

[midlifeflyer]

An aircraft operating IFR under 135 requires a SIC, or an autopilot in lieu of a SIC. .

You don't seem to be differentiating between passenger and nonpassenger flights. Is there a regulation other than 135.101?

 

[imacdog]

Cargo-only does not require a second pilot or autopilot. That is how operators are flying 1900s and Metros single pilot with no autopilot.

 

[Immelman]

Following this logic, I a am wondering how 'lame' is it to log time as SIC in a turbojet whose type requires two pilots?... Especially considering that, depending on equiptment, the turbojet may be 'easier' to operate than a 'Ho or Cessna 4xx?

In both cases - the aircraft whose type req's SIC and 135 ops spec that requires SIC, the FAA deems that a SIC is required.. I just don't get how one is more lame than the other.

Note: By 'easier' I am referring to comments made to me by friends with the approrpriate experience; I dont have any multi or jet time.

 

[wheelsup]

Cargo-only does not require a second pilot or autopilot. That is how operators are flying 1900s and Metros single pilot with no autopilot.

Reference?

I can only find 135.101 and 135.105. and no mention of cargo is in there.

I've heard about an exception, however. Just wondering if its true and where the loophole is that allows it. Flying a 1900 single pilot with no autopilot seems a bit, um, much.

~wheelsup

 

[imacdog]

135.101 says it all. No passengers, no requirement for a copilot. I don't have any 1900 time but from what I hear it is better than flying a Metro solo.

 

[j41driver]

Perhaps if the applicant tried to pass off 135 SIC as smoething more....like PIC......

I logged lots of time like this...

2.0 flight time CE-310.
I flew 1.0 as PIC.
Other pilot flew 1.0 as PIC.
But I logged 2.0 in the multi column.

So hot to get that multi time, I justifed shady logging...

I went back and did a massvie audit. Wish I did it right the first time....

If you flew 2.0 hours in an airplane...1.0 as PIC and 1.0 as SIC then you do have 2.0 loggable multi hours. I guess I'm not following.


I just re-read your post...was it pt 135 PIC that you were logging when you weren't qualified for it?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Reference?

I can only find 135.101 and 135.105. and no mention of cargo is in there.

Don't need another reference. If the aircraft is certificated for single pilot operations, then you need a rule that =does= day you need an SIC in order to log the time.

Single pilot A/C + No rule requiring an SIC = no logging SIC time.

The only reason I asked was that AvBug didn't differentiate. I suspect that this was an oversight, but just wanted to make sure.

 

[F16fixer]

Is anyone going to answer Immelman's question? I'm just curious what a first officer really does. If I'm going to be one some day, it would be a good heads-up. I am currently right seat in a B200, flying and doing my share. I'm sure there has to be a lot more work to it than what I do. For now this is the only way I can get some good multi time here in BFE Minnesota.

Waiting for a reply

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Is anyone going to answer Immelman's question? I'm just curious what a first officer really does. If I'm going to be one some day, it would be a good heads-up. I am currently right seat in a B200, flying and doing my share. I'm sure there has to be a lot more work to it than what I do. For now this is the only way I can get some good multi time here in BFE Minnesota.

Waiting for a reply

A first officers job is to do the paperwork, the walkaround, get me a couple bottles of water, and take the fat chick at the bar.

 

[wheelsup]

Don't need another reference. If the aircraft is certificated for single pilot operations, then you need a rule that =does= day you need an SIC in order to log the time.

Single pilot A/C + No rule requiring an SIC = no logging SIC time.

That wasn't the question - I just wanted to know where it said cargo operators need no autopilot. Me thinks flying single pilot with no autopilot in a 1900/Merlin is crazy nuts and would significantly shorten any pilots life span - but darn good experience none-the-less.

~wheelsup

 

[say again]

Log what you want. Just remember that before you interview, make sure you have a legitimate explanation on how you got the time. Nothing like being at an interview and getting backed into a corner because of time you can't explain.

 

[j41driver]

Don't need another reference. If the aircraft is certificated for single pilot operations, then you need a rule that =does= day you need an SIC in order to log the time.

FAR 135 (if you're properly trained and have a FAA SIC checkride) is the rule that allows the logging of SIC time in otherwise single pilot a/c.

 

[HMR]

Following this logic, I a am wondering how 'lame' is it to log time as SIC in a turbojet whose type requires two pilots?... Especially considering that, depending on equiptment, the turbojet may be 'easier' to operate than a 'Ho or Cessna 4xx?

The type certificate is key to your question. It's illegal to operate most turbojets single pilot. No one is going to argue logging SIC in a jet that has a "minimum crew requirement" of 2 pilots in the AFM. The right seat of a turbojet can be a very busy place and a good SIC is invaluable.

When you're low time and scraping for every hour, it gets tempting to start logging some of the "questionable" time. A little prudence now can save a lot of explaining later.