logging PIC while receiving dual with and without a PPL

[a21]

Is it legal to log PIC in a twin that requires only 1 pilot while yourbeing instructed in that twin granted you have your solo endorsement?

Example: Joe Schmo has never flown a day in his life.He goes to an FBOto receive dual in a seminole.After "x" ammount of hours, hisinstructor endorses him to solo the twin.Joe Schmo gets more multi dualin preparation for his Private Multi,he IS legal to log PIC in theseminole while being instructed without a PPL isnt he? (granted he gotthe solo signoff of course)

Anyone care to add?

 

[VNugget]

61.51(e)(4)

 

[UGAflyer]

I don't think so.

 

[Visceral]

Look under 61.51

No he isn't able to log PIC with the instructor in the aircraft because Joe doesn't have multi-engine land(or sea) on his certificate. The solo endorsement applies only when solo.

 

[a21]

pic

You can log it if your a student pilot and working on your multi evenwith the instructor on board,but you have to have the soloendorsment.Private,Recreational,and Commercial is a different story.ForPrivate,Recreational,and Commercial,you have to be appropriatelyrated.I looked at 61.51 and thats what it says,just not in plainenglish. Most people get there single engine stuff first,thats why thiscan easily be confused with student pilot regs in regards to logbooks.Anyone else agree? Im gonna call the local FSDO and see what they say.

 

[Monkeyfist]

Reread 61.51 e. (4) i,ii,iii -->the key word is AND, all three must be met in order for a student pilot to log PIC

 

[TrafficInSight]

61.51(e)(4)

spoken like a true SCANer... so what are you doing in E6-B anwyay?

 

[JetBlast2000]

You can log it if your a student pilot and working onyourmulti evenwith the instructor on board,but you have to havethesoloendorsment.Private,Recreational,and Commercial is adifferentstory.ForPrivate,Recreational,and Commercial,you have tobeappropriatelyrated.I looked at 61.51 and thats what it says,just notinplainenglish. Most people get there single engine stuff first,thatswhythiscan easily be confused with student pilot regs in regardstologbooks.Anyone else agree? Im gonna call the local FSDO and seewhatthey say.

I’m not sure where theconfusion is. The only time a STUDENT pilot can log PIC SEL or MELiswhen he/she is flying solo (with endorsement) or on the check ride.The key words in e,4, i are ‘sole occupent.’ Don’t forget in part 4 it says the ONLY time…. Not all the time as long as they have the endorsement...

 

[B GUMPS]

For a student without a pilot certificate the only time you can log solo is when your solo. If your receiving dual it is dual only.

 

[pilotyip]

You are not rated in the airplane you can not log PIC. Much like a person flying an airplane requiring a type rating, without that type rating you can not log PIC no matter how much time you sit in the left seat and hold the controls.

 

[bobbysamd]

Logging PIC

Is it legal to log PIC in a twin that requires only 1 pilot while yourbeing instructed in that twin granted you have your solo endorsement?

The assumption is the pilot is not yet rated in the aircraft. No. He can only log it as "dual received."

The regs apparently were changed a few years ago to let solo pilots (who are not yet rated in category and class) log that time as PIC. It used to be that until they were rated they had to log that time as solo time.

You can log time with your instructor as "PIC" and "dual received" after you are rated in the aircraft.

 

[Frank Towns]

It was explained to me a long time ago, just like this. Log the time if it is dual in the dual collumn. If it is PIC put it in the PIC collumn. You'll thank me later when you start filling out job apps for majors. Your collumns will actually add up. Its only a few hours, and its a drop in the bucket. If you log PIC when you get dual, you're times will be screwed up, this includes for an instrument rating. If you have filled out any job apps for majors, you know what I mean. The Skipper was a wise man, he is missed tremendously.

 

[nosehair]

You're probably confusing this with 61.129(b)(4) which does allow a Commercial applicant to have an instructor on board while doing the 10 hours of solo required in a multi. But it is still logged as dual only, not PIC. The provision of 61.129(b)(4) allows this 10 hours of dual to be credited towards the requirements listed in this regulation, but it is not solo or PIC and cannot be logged as such.

No such relief for the Private applicant. He/She must have the stated SOLO requirements.

 

[bobbysamd]

Logging PIC v. Logging PIC

It was explained to me a long time ago, just like this. Log the time if it is dual in the dual collumn. If it is PIC put it in the PIC collumn. You'll thank me later when you start filling out job apps for majors . . . .

As long as you are rated in the aircraft, you can log the time as PIC while you're receiving dual, as set forth at 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1):

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person --

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated . . . .

Logging PIC time while receiving dual is perfectly legal and commonplace. Schools such as Riddle and FlightSafety train students for their Private Multis early and they log multi PIC during their instrument and commercial training. Moreover, why short yourself of time to which you are legally entitled? These extra, legal PIC hours will sure come in handy come ATP time.

Just log the time as set forth in the regs. You will never go wrong that way. Each airline has its own idea about what consitutes PIC and what is not. Completing airline applications and time grids are individualized efforts. You'll have to go through your logbook anyway. You can worry about completing airline apps later.