Logging PIC as SIC

[naviator]

I'm currently flying a Lear 55. I do not have my ATP type yet so off course I'm only able to log SIC. Which, by the way, is great.

I am hoping to get my ATP type within the next 6 months though, and the rumour is that flying 135 both pilots can log PIC (if rated) even though the trip log says I'm first officer on the trip.

Any comments?

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[MetroSheriff]

I am hoping to get my ATP type within the next 6 months though, and the rumour is that flying 135 both pilots can log PIC (if rated) even though the trip log says I'm first officer on the trip.

Any comments?

[/url]

Yes. I hope you are kidding. Of course it is your logbbok, so do as you please. You many have a little explaining to do come interview time, on why an F/O is logging PIC time. This subject has been beat to death in the past. Do a search and you will find more comments than you may care to read.

 

[avbug]

Well, seeing as he asked, we might as well beat it some more. (Dead horses just piss me off; they just lay there, all glassy eyed, ignoring me. I know they're dead on the outside, but they're just laughing on on the inside. Insolent little worm-ridden carcases, anyway...)

Navigator, you may log PIC time when acting as sole manipulator of the controls, for the puroses of 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i). However, you're ill advised to do so, under Part 135. If you'll review 135.109, you'll find that the certificate holder designates the pilot in command for a particular flight. The designated PIC remains the pilot in command for the duration of the flight.

Unless you are actually the pilot in command, you are best advised to refrain from logging time as PIC.

You made reference to an "ATP Type." The ATP certificate is a pilot certificate, and a type rating is a rating added to that certificate. If you obtain your ATP, you don't have any additional privileges in the airplane, without a specific type rating for the airplane you're flying. Additionally, unless you are acting as PIC in that airplane, a type rating isn't required.

So far as two pilots logging pilot in command time under Part 135; it's inappropriate, and serves no good purpose. Further, if discovered, it appears as though one is padding one's logbook. It can only make you look bad.

If you lack pilot in command experience, go get it; take a job in which you can be pilot in command. Many times I've known pilots who hired on with a company or operator with very low time, as SIC. These pilots spent ample time with the company to be able to upgrade, except that they lacked the pilot-in-command experience to be insurable for the upgrade. They had to leave, take a job doing freight and work up like everybody else, then come back. Many didn't come back, but the point is that you need to get that experience some place. Time building is worthless; get the experience to qualify, rather than attempting to work around the regulations in order to pad your logbook.

 

[metrofo]

Navigator, If you have a type rating in the 55, and are acting as sole manipulator of the controls, you can technically log the time as PIC. Everyone agrees that this is a loopole in the regs, but it is none the less legal to do. I would not rry to hide this if questioned by in an interview, but the only part of the regs that deals with logging of flight time is in Part 61, so the designated PIC for 135 purposes has no bearing on the entries in your logbook. I agree with most of the posters though, you might want to change positions if you really want some hard PIC time to add to your credentials.

 

[tdvalve]

Guys, it's not a loophole in the regulations. It's there because the writers of the regulation wanted it there. This is one of the most misunderstood regulations on the books, and with good reason. Most (but not all) airline interviewers expect PIC time to be defined as the flight time when one was the actual PIC of an aircraft. In other words, they're more interested in command time than time actually controlling an aircraft. However, that's not what the FAA had in mind. They want it to represent not only command time, but also sole manipulator time and time as a flight instructor. Most, if not all, insurance companies will accept the FAA's FAR-61 definition of PIC time. It's logical that time as sole manipulator (particularly flying approaches and making takeoffs and landings) should be recorded differently than time spent shuffling charts and talking on the radio. However, unlike the military, the FAA doesn't have a separate category for this time. I'm long past caring about logging anything other than currency minimums, but if I did care, I would have columns for PIC-FAR-1, PIC-FAR-61, and SIC.