Logging of flight time, when you never fly?

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

I’ve heard from a few DPEs and other CFIs that logging of flight time with the "intent to fly" is perfectly legal. Even in the instance you have a mechanical failure, and therefore never take-off. I have a few entries in my logbook where we've taxied out and had something that didn't check out upon run up. My thing is, I'm looking through the regulations and I see nowhere where it mentions, "intent to fly". Please direct me to the correct area, which I'm overlooking, or let me know if I've been misinformed.


Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

Fly safe,
TA

 

[transpac]

I’ve heard from a few DPEs and other CFIs that logging of flight time with the "intent to fly" is perfectly legal. Even in the instance you have a mechanical failure, and therefore never take-off. I have a few entries in my logbook where we've taxied out and had something that didn't check out upon run up.

Webmaster: Please move this to the "YGBSM" forum.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Oh no... I'm dead serious.

 

[Lead Sled]

You answered your own question...

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing.

What you were told would be correct if it weren't for that pesky "after landing" phrase. In other words, no flight - no flight time.

Lead Sled

 

[nosehair]

Yep , just more B.S. for the purpose of logging the Hobbs meter as flight time...WHICH IT ISN'T !!!

"...moves under it's own power for the purpose of flight.." has been twisted by the flight schools to cover the hobbs taxi/runup/waitfortakeoff time. That ain't flight time either. When you taxi out from your chocks, you are moving for the purpose of repositioning for run-up, or at least to taxi out to line up on a runway to apply power for the purpose of flight. That's when flight time really starts and is the intent of the regulation. And that was the way it was before the hobbs meter. And that's why it was easier to solo in 10 hours and get a private in 40 hours...it was actually flight hours.

 

[JeffSKDTW]

Yep , just more B.S. for the purpose of logging the Hobbs meter as flight time...WHICH IT ISN'T !!!

"...moves under it's own power for the purpose of flight.." has been twisted by the flight schools to cover the hobbs taxi/runup/waitfortakeoff time. That ain't flight time either. When you taxi out from your chocks, you are moving for the purpose of repositioning for run-up, or at least to taxi out to line up on a runway to apply power for the purpose of flight. That's when flight time really starts and is the intent of the regulation. And that was the way it was before the hobbs meter. And that's why it was easier to solo in 10 hours and get a private in 40 hours...it was actually flight hours.

Nosehair, typically I find your posts to be spot on, but in this case I don't think your comments represent the "true intent" of the regulations. In fact, according to the FAA FAQ's, it states just the opposite (and further states it has been confirmed by legal opinion--admittedly, I do not have access to that legal opinion).
______________________
QUESTION: Some time ago I wrote looking for input on § 1.1 that defines “pilot flight time”. I said that some of our pilots claimed “flight time” included start, warm-up, taxi, run-up, and further taxi (all under the assumption that this time is “for the purpose of flight”) while the purists in the group claimed that flight time didn't even start until power was applied at the end of the runway.

After we get to § 1.1, does flight time include start, warm-up, taxi to the run-up area, further taxi to the runway, etc. or does “moving under its own power for the purpose of flight” begin only when the aircraft is lined up on the centerline beginning its take-off roll? The argument, of course, is that since most GA aircraft begin charging for the airplane once the engine starts, most pilots have decided to log what they pay for. But there is another group of pilots who say that warm-up and taxi time is not flight time. Has the FAA explained the definition we find in § 1.1?

ANSWER: Ref. § 1.1 and § 61.51; It means “. . . when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing . . .” Or, the more commonly referred definition is “Block‑to‑Block” time. The following has been checked and verified with General Counsel, AGC-240:

Start up: No, you can not log that as flight time.

Warm-up: No, you can not log that as flight time if the aircraft has not yet moved from the parking location.

Taxi: Yes, you can log that as flight time.

Run-up: Yes, you can log that time. After all, attempted flight without run-up could appear careless & reckless.

Further taxi to the runway, etc.: Yes, you can log that as flight time.

The aircraft moves out onto the runway, throttle up to takeoff power, and begins the takeoff roll: Obviously, yes, you can log that as flight time.

Landing and roll out: Yes, you can log that as flight time.

Taxi in to parking: Yes, you can log that as flight time.

Engine Shut Down: No you can not log that as flight time after the airplane is in a parking position.

{Q&A-374}

 

[nosehair]

Jeff, I didn't mean to imply that my definition of flight time was the legal definition. I know of the FAA FAQ opinion, and I don't try to "buck the system" on this...it's no big deal. I was just venting on the fact that this is a "politically correct" opinion, just like the logging PIC time when you are not the PIC. This did not used to be. It is not common sense. But common sense has left the building. Legal interpretations abound. Go ahead and log your taxi and runup time as flight time - it's legal! Go ahead and log your time with an instructor as PIC time - it's legal! But you see how it gets out of hand? The original poster was asking about logging a taxi-out as a flight because he moved the airplane for the purpose of flight - go ahead and log it - it's legal!

#@%#*#%

 

[JeffSKDTW]

Thanks for the clarification, nosehair.

 

[Lead Sled]

The original poster was asking about logging a taxi-out as a flight because he moved the airplane for the purpose of flight - go ahead and log it - it's legal

That's not quite right. The FAQs assume that a flight took place. In this example, he taxied out for the purpose of flight, encountered a mechanical problem and returned to the ramp without flying. Under those conditions, the taxi time can not count as flight time - there was no flight. By definition, flight time ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing.

Lead Sled

 

[nosehair]

The FAQs assume

See? There's that word again - ASSUME - it makes an ASS out of U and ME.

It also screws up a lot of the "Opinions" rendered by the "Officials".