Logging Long Haul SIC/IO Time

[jumppilot]

I tried to search, but no luck on a substantial answer...

I've heard many different answers for this:

If I am a required crewmember (not CA) of a 3 member crew (CA, FO, IO), how do I log the time?

I'm under the impression I log it all as SIC since I'm a required crewmember (ie: the flight doesn't go without me), and that is the consensus among my peers.

A 10 hour flight to Europe, I log it all as SIC, regardless if I'm the designated FO or IO, or in the seat. With that said, I don't log actual or approaches unless I'm flying.

Thoughts?

 

[HA25]

FWIW, I log all my time as SIC... sure I'm PIC typed.. but the PIC, even if he's in bed, is still the signed PIC on the plane. I also have no problem logging the time while I'm in the bunk.. I'm still required crew, and on duty.

 

[jumppilot]

That's my thought exactly.

I don't log PIC time, since we learned since day one that a CA can log PIC even when he is sleeping.

 

[Fedora]

It depends on the flight rules. If you are flying part 121 rules you can't log PIC time unless you sign for the bird.

 

[HA25]

It depends on the flight rules. If you are flying part 121 rules you can't log PIC time unless you sign for the bird.

Hey fedora... how did recurrent go? Are you a still PIC?

 

[Fedora]

Why? You expecting me to bust or something?
Still PIC this week. Recurrent starts Tuesday so a little while longer to enjoy my left seat eh?

 

[HA25]

Why? You expecting me to bust or something?
Still PIC this week. Recurrent starts Tuesday so a little while longer to enjoy my left seat eh?

Na.. just busting on ya.. sitting here with GM in Shanghai drinking our 6th cup of coffee and board, so what else is there to do?

 

[TheBaron]

I tried to search, but no luck on a substantial answer...

I've heard many different answers for this:

If I am a required crewmember (not CA) of a 3 member crew (CA, FO, IO), how do I log the time?

I'm under the impression I log it all as SIC since I'm a required crewmember (ie: the flight doesn't go without me), and that is the consensus among my peers.

A 10 hour flight to Europe, I log it all as SIC, regardless if I'm the designated FO or IO, or in the seat. With that said, I don't log actual or approaches unless I'm flying.

Thoughts?

Aren't you actually only required for that portion beyond 8 hours?

We log 2/3 of the flight time when acting as an RFO (IO, IRO) with a 3 member crew and 1/2 of the block when acting as part of a 4 member crew. Apparently our POI/FSDO has decided that is what is acceptable. Of course if you ask two different Feds, you're likely to get two different answers.

 

[TheBaron]

I tried to search, but no luck on a substantial answer...

I've heard many different answers for this:

If I am a required crewmember (not CA) of a 3 member crew (CA, FO, IO), how do I log the time?

I'm under the impression I log it all as SIC since I'm a required crewmember (ie: the flight doesn't go without me), and that is the consensus among my peers.

A 10 hour flight to Europe, I log it all as SIC, regardless if I'm the designated FO or IO, or in the seat. With that said, I don't log actual or approaches unless I'm flying.

Thoughts?

§ 121.507 Flight time limitations: Three pilot crews: airplanes.

top (a) No certificate holder conducting supplemental operations may schedule a pilot—
(1) For flight deck duty in an airplane that has a crew of three pilots for more than eight hours in any 24 consecutive hours; or
(2) To be aloft in an airplane that has a crew of three pilot for more than 12 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.
(b) No pilot of an airplane that has a crew of three pilots may be on duty for more than 18 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.
[Doc. No. 6258, 29 FR 19218, Dec. 31, 1964; 30 FR 3639, Mar. 19, 1965, as amended by Amdt. 121–253, 61 FR 2613, Jan. 26, 1996]
§ 121.509 Flight time limitations: Four pilot crews: airplanes.

top (a) No certificate holder conducting supplemental operations may schedule a pilot—
(1) For flight deck duty in an airplane that has a crew of four pilots for more than eight hours in any 24 consecutive hours; or
(2) To be aloft in an airplane that has a crew of four pilots for more than 16 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.
(b) No pilot of an airplane that has a crew of four pilots may be on duty for more than 20 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.
[Doc. No. 6258, 29 FR 19218, Dec. 31, 1964; 30 FR 3639, Mar. 19, 1965, as amended by Amdt. 121–253, 61 FR 2613, Jan. 26, 1996]


In a nutshell:
You can only be on "flight deck duty" for 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours. Using a relief officer allows you to be "aloft in an airplane" for 12 or 16 hours, depending on crew of 3 or 4 pilots. Logging 10 hours in a 24 hour period is OK if you are flying under Part 91 (or Part 135 2-pilot crew) but not under Part121.

 

[transpac]

It depends on the flight rules. If you are flying part 121 rules you can't log PIC time unless you sign for the bird.

Do you have a reference for this? My Part 61 makes no mention of Part 121 vs. any other part in regard to logging pilot time.