logging instrument time

[TDTURBO]

Crossing Lake Michigan in the summer in the middle of the day in haze can easily be logged as actual. Although you can see staight down, now way you can fly without using instruments, my point being it doesn't necessarily have to be crossing water at night.

 

[MTpilot]

Technically you could log actual even while your legal vfr.

 

[sky37d]

Crossing Lake Michigan in the summer in the middle of the day in haze can easily be logged as actual. Although you can see staight down, now way you can fly without using instruments, my point being it doesn't necessarily have to be crossing water at night.

I've had a few of those days. Can't see squat.

 

[nosehair]

cforst, you sound like you may be getting some confusion by the way some European countries JAA regulations allow logging IFR time as the time you are on an IFR flight plan/clearance, regardless of weather conditions. That is true for them, but not for us. United States FAA rules say "flight by reference to instruments"...meaning you are keeping the greasy side down soley by referencing flight instruments, not a visible horizon - flight plan or not.

 

[A Squared]

Crossing Lake Michigan in the summer in the middle of the day in haze can easily be logged as actual. Although you can see staight down, now way you can fly without using instruments, my point being it doesn't necessarily have to be crossing water at night.

Yeah, that would be another example, and you're right, it doesn't have to be at night.

 

[ukpylot]

Another question.... If I'm a safety pilot for someone and he's under the hood and we encounter IMC do I still get to log PIC for that time? Does it make a difference if he's IFR-current or not?

 

[NYCPilot]

cforst513-

you've got to change that avatar. It's very disturbing...

 

[NYCPilot]

Another question.... If I'm a safety pilot for someone and he's under the hood and we encounter IMC do I still get to log PIC for that time? Does it make a difference if he's IFR-current or not?

This begs the question. Why would you encounter IMC if you're supposed to remain in VMC while simulating IFR. You should be maintaining VFR. I'm assuming your pilot friend is practicing approaches while you are the safety pilot in VFR conditions, and not on an IFR flight plan. Technically, you as a safety pilot should log it as SIC, unless the two of you have decided that he will be logging PIC as sole manipulator only. In this case, you have been designated the PIC, and if you were actually on an IFR flight plan and you've been designated PIC, then it makes no difference if he's current or not. You're the one who needs to be current.

 

[ukpylot]

Hmm... here in SoCal its complicated (at least in my mind) by the fact that we file our practice 'trip' as a tower en route clearance so never file an actual IFR flight plan, nor are we (usually) ever told to remain in VMC.

But you are right of course that if IMC is involved anywhere along the route then we'd better be real IFR and then I, as designated PIC, is the one whose currency counts.

 

[NYCPilot]

Around my way, heres how it usually works.

Normally, we depart our base VFR and contact approach control to request practice approaches. We'll tell them which ones we want and how many, and how the last one will terminate. From here, we are given a squawk code for separation and identification purposes. The approach controller gives us headings and altitudes to fly and they almost ALWAYS tell us to maintain VFR. Not only is it a reminder that you are NOT on an IFR flight plan, but to state that it is our responsibility to maintain VFR cloud distance and visiblities while operating in their airspace. It also implies that we are ultimately responsible for traffic separation while maneuvering, not ATC. Remember though, whether you are VFR or IFR and in VMC, you as the PIC are always responsible for collision avoidence.

It is conceivable that the two of you can be on an IFR flight plan, where you are safety pilot and acting PIC while in VMC and the other pilot is under the hood. Once you hit some IMC, he can still fly the plane without the hood and log IMC. You on the other hand can not. The FAR's state that actual can only be logged if you are controlling the plane solely by reference to flight instruments.