Logging approaches

[GooodLaaa]

IAP

Ok...now here's another one while the knowledge fountain is running.... When, if ever, may an Instrument Instructor (CFII) log an approach which their student is flying?

I know what I do. Just heard a couple interprettations, wonder what everyone else thinks.

Dont be part of the smokin hole
CJC

 

[Acestick]

The instructor, provided that he or she is an instrument instructor, may log actual instrument PIC whenever giving dual instruction AND whenever in actual instrument conditions...If the student is under the hood, then the instructor logs it PIC because the instructor is giving instruction. But the instructor cannot log it as PIC AND actual instrument unless actual instrument conditions exist...Even though the instructor may never touch the controls during the approach, if instruction is being given then its PIC for the instructor...If it also happens to be in actual IMC then it can also be logged as actual instrument PIC


This can be found under FAR 61.5....something, under the section entitled pilot logbooks...I think it's 61.55 or 61.56, I don't have the FAR/AIM in front of me right now

 

[dogg]

ANOTHER QUICK QUESTION: where does any rating or currency requirement ever reference actual ifr time. In other words, why bother differentiating your "hood time" from your "actual " time.

 

[GooodLaaa]

Part 135

I think the requirements for 135 Mins for IFR operators is the only place I have seen the requirement for ACTUAL Instrument time (50hours? if I remember correctly). Sure the ATP requires it as well.

CJC

 

[avbug]

Dog,


There is no requirement for "actual" instrument time. Only instrument time, or flight time by reference to instruments. Weather this occurs because of an internal or external influence, is beyond the scope of the intent of the FAR. It doesn't matter if the conditions are simulated or actual, and no requiremente exists for any certificate, rating, or operating privilege that any experience be in "actual" instrument conditions.

The 50 hour requirement under Part 135 to which Goodla referred is for 50 hours of actual flight time. Under 135.243(c)(2), a PIC must have 1,200 hours total time, 500 hours of cross country, 100 hours at night, and 75 hours of actual or simulated instrument experience. 50 hours of those 75 must be in actual flight, meaning in flight as opposed to being in a simulator.

All required instrument time does not require a pilot to obtain experience as simulated or actual instrument. Only instrument time. If it is simulated, 91.109 provides that a safety pilot is required, and for the purposes of logging that time, 61.51(g)(3)(ii) requires that the name of the safety pilot be included in the log entry.

61.51(b)(3)(ii) requires that a pilot break down his or her instrument experience according to "actual" or simulated instrumet, flight simulator, or flight training device, when logging that time.

 

[slapstick]

so do you CFII's log the approaches you watch your students fly while they are under the hood in VMC?

 

[GooodLaaa]

Nope

Dont log the approach just monitoring it in VMC conditions. That's not work, plus it's no fun.

CJC