Logbook question

[chrisdahut24]

Hi all

I have two logbooks. My first one was small logbook which I stopped using once I stopped training and started instructing (ran out of columns). However, it is a mess: blue, red, black ink on some pages, messy CFI handwriting etc... (I'm sure most of you have seen this all before!). It's not so bad to the point where it's full of white out and with pages falling out, but it's not very presentable either if I go up to an interview.

Question is: Should I redo that logbook? My big concern on doing that is that I wouldn't be able to get most the CFI signatures to "legitimize" the large amount of dual time I have in that logbook.

How have all you who were in the same situation dealt with it? Did you redo it or did you just use the messy original hoping whoever interviews you would be forgiving?

 

[2000flyer]

I have always been told NEVER to redo a logbook. Interviewer's understand that early in our careers you would have several people making entries into your logbooks. Unless you had the forsight (and you'd probably be the only one) to have a black pen at hand and asked the instructor to be neat about it, they used whatever color pen they could find.

Re-writing a logbook could bring on questions whether it's authentic or not (the last thing you want to worry about during an interview). If your subsequent logs are neat and in order, I wouldn't sweat one messy book. Your interviewer will understand.

IMHO

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[chrisdahut24]

Thanks 2000flyer! Thats exactly what I wanted to hear

 

[Zulu]

Don't worry about it, everyone has one of those "first" logbooks. When I handed my logbooks into FedEx, the interviewer kinda chuckled and said "this one goes back aways" when he opened my broken binded, stained cover, barely legible first logbook. But he DID thumb through it and actually asked a couple of questions.

Z

 

[bobbysamd]

Logbooks

I'll second the above. You might have trouble getting the signoffs and signatures again. Just be as anal as possible with your subsequent logbooks.

 

[Salty Dog]

My friends higher up in the industry mentioned that at their airline interviews they had prepared a "presentation" logbook summary, one so far as to be tabbed, which categorized flight time down to night cross country vs. day cross country, etc. Basically printed off from a spreadsheet and not that hard to do, it had all the info layed out for the interviewer. I think that's what Logbook Pro and similar programs do.

Of course, you should bring the old, original, butted-out log books as well should they desire to pull the string. That way all your bases are covered. You've got the chronological progression of your flying career with all the endorsements, etc. and the neat and presentable understand-it-in-a-glance version as well. Rather than re-write the same thing just a little more legibly, I would suggest putting that effort into something more like the interview-ready summary.

Just another way to skin the same cat, I suppose. Good luck!

 

[a-v-8er]

Very few people have neat logbooks from when they started flying. This is something I'm glad I was told on my very first flying lesson. That CFI told me right away that if you're planning a career in aviation, make sure you fill out your logbook (with a black pen) yourself and let the CFI sign afterwards. This is what I do for my students too nowadays. I'll either fill out their logbooks very neatly or tell them to do so and always use the same color pen before they even get a chance to mess up! There will be errors and entries that look like a five year old did eventually (usually that happens when the examiners grabs the book after a checkride ). What it comes down to is all CFI's out there who writes across the lines and columns in the same manner and variety of colors that a child would use, think about if you'd do that in your own logbook!? Is so, then I don't know if there's any remidy for you, but most guys I know care more about their own logbook than their students... So to round things off, here's a reminderfor all CFI's: Be proffessional and write the same way you'd want someone to write in your logbook! Not everyone has perfect handwriting, but most people can write neatly if they put a little effort into it!

 

[2000flyer]

a-v-8er,

You 're one of the lucky ones to have had a CFI with such insight. I think all students who are planning a career in aviation should be told EXACTLY what, when and how to log time, especially if planning an airline career. There are so many grey areas (SIC in a BE90 or C414, correct logging of PIC, IFR, how to log sim time and FE time, and so on). It sure would have saved thousands of pilot's the head ache when filling out applications and going to interviews. This, of course, is just my humble opinion.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[Timebuilder]

I still keep my handwritten logbook up to date with all of the entries for my flights, but I have a COMPLETE record in Logbook Pro. For my next interview, I will print out the logbook pro pages and sign them. I will also bring the original logbooks with their math errors, muticolored entries (before I started on my Commercial, and decided to fly full time) along to show the original progression of my experiences and endorsements.

 

[avbug]

Several of my former logs look like scrapbooks. Pictures, momentos, former cards and medical certificates all pasted inside. Some are falling apart. My first one has the binder held together with the electrical tape I used back then...it looked good when I first put it on there. The pages have yellowed a bit, there are finger prints where I filled out the log after a long hard day of flying and twisting a wrench...even a water stain or two where the airplane leaked in a rainstorm.

I won't ever apologise for those logs, because they represent my entire teenage and adult life in a nutshell. If someone doesn't like them, I don't want to work for them anyhow.

My logs are exact, the times all add up, down, and sideways. Every ten pages or so are printed lists pasted in categorizing time by type, PIC, SIC, and every which way but sunday. It's easy to see.

There are a few different colors of ink here and there. Many remarks lines have two or three lines of small writing to describe the flight; a fair amount of detail.

I have photographs of airplanes I've flown, some good action shots diving into a field, or a really nice shot of an airplane on the ramp with the mountains in the background. Printed captions nearby. Some list the dates that particular airplane was destroyed, and the crew that was killed in it, and so forth. A bunch of those.

I've never had a complaint about any of those logs by an inspector, examiner, interviewer, or contracting agent. Lot's of compliments, though. One year mine was the last logbook to be returned, after the contracting agency had gone through everyone's logs with a fine tooth comb. They had rejected logs and paperwork for things as minor as a .3 error in flight time.

My logs were the only one that passed, our of nearly 30. It was also kept the longest. The explaination was that they were looking at the pictures. A few folks have commented that they knew the time was genuine, because nobody would make a fake logbook like that. I'd like to think so.

You take your own logs that represent you. Simply because your first log isn't the guttenberg of logs, it's you. It's who you are, it's where you came from, and it's authentic. Don't ever apologise for it. Make it neat and accurate as you go, but character isn't a crime.

If there are things about your logs you don't like, then strive to improve or change them with the next line, or next page, or next book. But don't ever apologise, and don't hide them. Your book is just fine the way it is.

 

[CRJ_Driver]

Logbook & Interviews

Don't sweat your current logbook situation AS LONG as all the time is accurate throughout. Meaning..totals should be the correct value on each and every logbook page from EVERY logbook.

Second. If you have time..you can transfer the contents into a new logbook like you were talking about. Don't worry about finding your old CFI's. At the interview...bring all your logbooks and simply state that your 1st logbook was a mess...so you took the initiative to create a new log easier to read. The original you have with you along with the CFI signatures.

This may impress the interviewer and may help you in getting a job in the tight job market today.

Good Luck.

 

[350DRIVER]

Great advice in the previous posts. Do not tamper, redo, or doctor up any of your log books since that will raise many more red flags during an interview than any scribble, stained, or worn out numbers or lettering in a logbook. Let the log stand for everything that you have been through in your aviation life since 20 years down the road you can look back and laugh about some of your experiences early on in this industry.

I have suggested to my students in the past that once they are a CFI/CFII then they start keeping two different books since there will be more room and make for a neater log.



3 5 0
another good idea would be to make a copy of your most current pages just in case you were to ever loose the book.

 

[328dude]

Anyone see a problem with logging everything into a computerized logbook program from day one? I was told by the feds that for entry's were instruction was recieved, the instructors certificate number is suffice if unable to have your old instructor resign your new logbook.

By all means though, keep your old logbooks if you go this route.

 

[wanabe_fo]

math error

On this subject of logbooks, I recently did a categorization of all of my time from day 1. It appears I left off a .5 flight from my TT but added a.3 to something else. Any suggestions on fixing these.

My thoughts were to make an entry at the bottom of the next page and put "error found from bla bla bla" and make the totals corrected.

Any thoughts

 

[avbug]

Wana,

Minimize revealing your mistakes. Nobody is going to add up your entire book. However, you can correct it discreetly. Use one line, just like you're entering a flight. You can do it in the middle of a page right now, or wait until you're down at the bottom and use the last line. It really doesn't matter. Add whatever value to each column in that one line that's necessary to correct things.

For example, if you are needing to bring your total time up .5, then add .5 in the total flight time on that column only. If you have too much intstrument time, and need to correct back .7, then add a -.7 in that column only. Make a note in the remarks section that this is and adjustment for errors, and if you have the page numbers where this occured, reference them.

When you add this line up with the others at the bottom of the page, it all comes out where you want it in the totals. The explaination is there, but it looks like any other entry, and doesn't stand out, or draw attention to mistakes. It's discreet, and a little more professional. You can make repeated mistakes and still have a clean looking logbook in this manner (though I don't advocate it, of course).

Good luck!