Log Back Seat Observer Time as Tot.Time

[DKM]

Embry Riddles CAPT program is telling their students they can log back seat observer time and add it to their total time in order to get their total times up to 550 hours.

What do you guys think of this?

How will this be accepted in the industry to show up at an interview or apply for an interview with 250 hours of Observer time?

I seems they would be laughed out of the interview if they got that far.

 

[SDCFI]

?

Are you serious? Seems ERAU has hit a new low.

 

[superrav]

Wouldnt believe it ..until i see it.

 

[labbats]

Then add your sim time to your TT...

 

[superrav]

Can i add the time spent watching airplanes...

 

[flx757]

Only if watching from the back seat of your car. Then again...what the *@#$ would you be doing watching airplanes??

 

[de727ups]

Source please?

"Embry Riddles CAPT program is telling their students they can log back seat observer time"

This can't be true...

 

[Westwindflyer]

I am going to start logging my time thinking about flights if thats the case.

 

[Tinstaafl]

My first flight was aged two. Can I log the entire period from then until now?

 

[CDVdriver]

Well..

61.51(a)
TRAINING TIME AND AERONAUTICAL EXPERIENCE
Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience USED to meet the requirements for a certificate,rating or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience used required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

Meaning the minimum you are required to log is the time you need to apply for anything or to prove you're still current.
There is no maximum to what you can log.
You can log time in row 44 of a 757 if thats what you want as long as you do not use that time to apply for a rating or to remain current.
You also cannot log it PIC/SIC/Safetypilot or dual received just in the Total Time column.
Don't even think for a second that this would be of any use but the lawyers at Embry surely know this also.
So yes you can log observer time to your Total Time as long as you put in the remarks section "backseat observer" and you do not use this time to apply for a license or rating.
So theoretically you could have a PPL with 1000hrs of which he/she has only flown 50 hrs him/her self.
In Europe it was fairly common for people to log passenger time if a buddy was flying. It is aeronautical experience.......and legal just does not make a lot of sense if you want to be a career pilot.
Same story with cross country time, any landing at a different airport is XC just can't use it if it's less than 50 miles so useless to log and a nightmare to figure out later.
In two situations you can even log time when you are asleep:
Captain Long Haul and CFI ...LOL

 

[DKM]

I do not think anyone is challenging the legality of this. But I think you really nail it in the second half of your comment CDVDRIVER.

CAPT had a meeting April 6 telling the students about their intention to implement this logging policy soon.

If you know a CAPT student give them a call or email… Or call CAPT inquire about the Ab Initio program and ask them how they are going to get you to 550 hours.

The big problem here is CAPT is/will be telling 0 time pilots with they call or come checkout the program that they will get 500+ hours loggable time and a 0 time pilot just will not know better. Hopefully they will see this thread.

 

[rubberducky]

Then add your sim time to your TT...

there is nothing wrong with this for FAA ratings...

 

[Kenny]

"Embry Riddles CAPT program is telling their students they can log back seat observer time and add it to their total time in order to get their total times up to 550 hours"

This isn't quite the whole story. What CAPT is trying to do is find an acceptable way for their students to present their "Pilot monitioring" time in a format that would be acceptable to the FAA, prospective employers and the industry as a whole. it was explained in a very clear way that the time would go towards "Total Flight Experience" NOT "Total Flight time" Now I know that to prospective students that line may be blurred but CAPT really isn't trying to do anything underhanded. In fact the irony of all this, is that it was proposed by their POI at MCO's FSDO.

Now for most of us that have been through either 61 or 141 training, sitting in the back meant falling asleep while the guy in the front made a mess of things. But that's not that case with the capt program. From day one the students work in a multi-crew environment calling for checklists, briefing eachother and so on. To be honest I don't do any more than they do but because I get to sit in front of the controls I get to log SIC time. I think the program is getting a bit more of a bad rap than it should simply because there's a general misunderstanding out there. When I first heard what they were trying to do I had serious concerns and doubts but having seen the students in action, all I can say is that I think they may suprise us all.

 

[100LL... Again!]

This would be unfair to the rest of us who have to get 'real' flight time.

Just one more shortcut for moneyed individuals short on patience and long on cash.

They will also be long on procedure, perhaps, but short on real pilot skills that have experience to back them up.

Posers.

 

[labbats]

Just think of all the cool bar stories they'll have.

"Yeah, this other time, in the back seat of the 172, I handed the guy the wrong chart! We all laughed for days!"

Not quite so cool.

 

[Lead Sled]

From time to time I have the opportunity to hire pilots for our company. I guarantee you that I will be smiling as I tear up any resume that come across my desk showing "Pilot Observer Time" anywhere in the total time mix - but hey, that's just me.

Lead Sled