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Lockheed JetStar with CF34 engines

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Gatorman

Gatorman

Snot-nosed college boy!!
Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Posts
416
I know that back in the day that Lockheed pulled the 4 TFE731 engines and strapped on 2 CF34's. It only happened on one aircraft. I have seen the picture. One where the nose gear is just pulling up off of the runway. The Picture was on the back of one of the aircraft maintenance manuals.
I was wondering if anyone else has seen the picture of knows where is can find it on the internet.
 
I haven't seen the picture in many years but the actual aircraft was sitting on display at an aircraft maintenance facility in Vancover, BC.
I found this but no pics: http://aircraftstories.free.fr/image/grille.gifThe ultimate version of the “JetStar” comes from the work of the company American Aviation Industries of Van Nuys. It proposed the installation of turbofans General Electric CF34-1A of 4150 kg, with a modernized avionics. The “FanStar” (N380AA) accomplished its first flight since Mojave, on September 5, 1986. In comparison with other jets of business, the “JetStar” was not a great commercial success.
 
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N380aa

Gatorman,

Sent you a PM with a lead.

TransMach
 
The way I heard it, GE backed out on American Aviation Industries and wouldn't provide the engines.

GV
 
I disagree on the number of these aircraft Lockheed built. I think there were at least three of them. One crashed out north west of Van Nuys in an open field in 1961. Ran out of fuel with a couple of Lockheed pilots onborad going from Marrieta to Burbank, non-stop.....almost. Pilots hurt but at least not killed. Another airplane was assigned to Kelly Johnson and for a number of years was kept in a hangar at Burbank. I actually got in one of these airplanes in about 1974 at VNY when Lockheed had some joint business with Litton Industries at VNY and parked the airplane at the then Litton hangar beneath the tower. Look very primitive inside compared to the JetStar that we all came to know. Also use to see one out at Palmdale with what looked like an Air Force paint job on it but not sure about that. I think it was used to support some aspect of the U2 program that was very active at both VNY and PMD in those days. And yes, ther is one up at YVR in a maintenance school I believe.

Some thing even more rare was the McDonnnell 220 which was the original competitor to the JetStar. 4 engines slung under the wing. Looked like a miniture CV880.
 
One more comment on the original 2 engined JetStar. I seem to recall that the original engines were British built? Anyone have a thought on this?
 
The solution

Okay I got off my arse and did a Google search. There were two, 2 engined JetStars built in 1957. They had Orpheous engines made in England. The one that wound up in CYVR at the maintenance school was the prototype and later Kelly Johnson's personal airplane. It's now is down at Paine Field near Seattle at the Boeing Museam Restoration center. Nice that it will be preserved and not cut up by some welders torch! Don't know what happend to the other one?
 
N380aa

Talk about thread "Hijack" ...

Gatorman was talking about a failed re-engine program started in the mid '80s where a California company wanted to remove the -6, -8 or -731 engines (4 each) and install GE CF's (2 each) ...

Not the twin engine prototype built in the 50's ...

By the way, it was a sad day to see Kelly Johnson's wind tunnel destroyed in favor of a shopping center ...

TransMach
 
Sorry for the hijack. Probably spent more time on Allen Poulson's payroll than most on this board, but never was aware of his interest in re-engining the JetStar. By the way, how much time do you have in the airplane since you know so fuking much about it?
 
GVFlyer said:
The way I heard it, GE backed out on American Aviation Industries and wouldn't provide the engines.

GV
Click to expand...

True statement. Bombardier pressured GE to supply engines only to them. AAI sued(more than 20 yrs. ago) and the lawsuit was settled recently.
 
Yo Spooky,

Since you called me out, I'll let you know that I have a blistering 10.7 hours (sic) on the L-1329 model, but not the FanStar ... and it didn't have anything to do with the time I spent flying an AC-1121 (and occasionally a ratty C-337) for The AvGroup as a contactor to American Aviation Industries/Inc., the folks working the GE CF-34 refit for the JetSled circa 1984 in Van Nuys (aka "Two Jews from the Valley"). Their NW Airport location had been re-developed by Dave Nolan/Van Nuys Air Center in the early 80's which also failed and then was later habitated by Helinet, JetWest, eventually the infamous Pacific Jet and currently JetFirst/First Jet or some such entity.

But as Leslie Nielsen would have said "That's not important" ... what is important is that there are some folks on this board with some depth of knowledge and experience like yourself.

Thanks for your somewhat vulgar challenge.

TransMach
 
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My poor choice of words is simply an indicator of not being sober at the time of the post. My apologies please.

The east side of the VNY airport was always a very interesting place with a cast of characters right out of some Hollywood casting unit.
 
N380aa

Spooky,

Accepted with the class displayed ... Yes, KVNY is populated by a complete cast of characters or is that a cast of complete characters but KBUR/KVNY are still home to me.

TransMach
 
I knew that someone here would know what I was refering to...thanks.

But, I am still looking for the pic.
Like I said ,I know that the pic was on the back cover of their maintenance manual and it had the story about the CF34.
Thanks for the info TransMach....you are on the right trail.
 
I did fly JetStar serial number 1. It started out as a twin engine with Brit engines, then was converted to a -6, then to a -8, then to the 731.

We got the the airplane from the FAA which operated it with the registration of N1. We operated it in the US Marshal Air Operations Division for a few years.

Sadly very poor maintenance caused the airplane to be grounded. It sat in the hangar for nearly a year and then the ownership was transfer to a College in Kansas. A crew came down and ferried the airplane (on three engines from what I heard) to Kansas and we never heard anymore information regarding its status.

Hopefully that this is the JetStar at Boeing Field.

One note on interest, the overhead fuel panel was reverse of the rest of the JetStars, which caused a few problems when attending Flight Safety for initial and recurrency. I also don't think we ever figured out the emergency gear extension procedures to that airplane because of all the changes it had been through.

The airplane was a maintenance nightmare. I ended up with nearly 500 hours on the JetStar and never completed a 3 or 4 day mission without breaking down. I remember once on a 5 day trip we were gone for 8 days because the airplane broke down every time we flew it. It would break, we'd get it fixed after a couple of days, takeoff and it would break, went on like that for 8 days. It wasn't just me, every crew that flew it had the same problem.

I had two rapid decompressions in it in 48 hours. The second one was with the US Attorney General and his staff on board. He was not impressed.

Now with all said, it was one of the nicest flying airplanes I have ever flown. Tons of room in the cockpit. It did have tendency to love runways however.
 
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con-pilot said:
I did fly JetStar serial number 1. It started out as a twin engine with Brit engines, then was converted to a -6, then to a -8, then to the 731.

We got the the airplane from the FAA which operated it with the registration of N1. We operated it in the US Marshal Air Operations Division for a few years.

Sadly very poor maintenance caused the airplane to be grounded. It sat in the hangar for nearly a year and then the ownership was transfer to a College in Kansas. A crew came down and ferried the airplane (on three engines from what I heard) to Kansas and we never heard anymore information regarding its status.

Hopefully that this is the JetStar at Boeing Field.

One note on interest, the overhead fuel panel was reverse of the rest of the JetStars, which caused a few problems when attending Flight Safety for initial and recurrency. I also don't think we ever figured out the emergency gear extension procedures to that airplane because of all the changes it had been through.

The airplane was a maintenance nightmare. I ended up with nearly 500 hours on the JetStar and never completed a 3 or 4 day mission without breaking down. I remember once on a 5 day trip we were gone for 8 days because the airplane broke down every time we flew it. It would break, we'd get it fixed after a couple of days, takeoff and it would break, went on like that for 8 days. It wasn't just me, every crew that flew it had the same problem.

I had two rapid decompressions in it in 48 hours. The second one was with the US Attorney General and his staff on board. He was not impressed.

Now with all said, it was one of the nicest flying airplanes I have ever flown. Tons of room in the cockpit. It did have tendency to love runways however.
Click to expand...

That's a great story. The airplane at Paine Field up in Seattle is still in the 2 engine configuration and is touted as Serial No. 1, so go figure. With only two of these things having built you would think someone could get this right. I wonder if the airplane you flew was the one that Kelly Johnson once used as I had seen it parked in a hangar at Burbank back in the seventies with only two engines. I didn't think you could convert a -6 JetStar to a 731 and that only the -8's were candidates for that mod?

Thanks for the info.
 
We were told that it was serial number 1 buy the FAA when we got the airplane from them, but it was the FAA that told us, so who really knows.:rolleyes:

As for the -6 to a -8 to a 731 I'm not really sure, however, it was Lockheed that changed this airplane from the original twin engine version into a -6. The airplane was converted from the -8 to the 731 when the FAA had the airplane.

Now remember one very important fact, back until a few years ago the FAA did not have comply with FARs. So this JetStar may been the only -6 that ever did make to a 731. As I said earlier, the fuel panel was inverted from all other JetStars, this was/can be confirmed by Flight Safety. There were other minor differences on that airplane compared to the rest of the JetStar fleet, but I cannot remember them now, it has been around 10 years since I flew the airplane.

As I said, I did love flying the JetStar, you had to try really hard to look bad in that airplane, especially on landing.

(It would be nice to know the real truth about that airplane, as I stated I was repeating what the FAA told us.)

I just had a thought, could the one in Seattle be the first non-civilan JetStar and the one the FAA and we operated the first civilan JetStar? Just an idea.
 
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con-pilot said:
We were told that it was serial number 1 buy the FAA when we got the airplane from them, but it was the FAA that told us, so who really knows.:rolleyes:

As for the -6 to a -8 to a 731 I'm not really sure, however, it was Lockheed that changed this airplane from the original twin engine version into a -6. The airplane was converted from the -8 to the 731 when the FAA had the airplane.

Now remember one very important fact, back until a few years ago the FAA did not have comply with FARs. So this JetStar may been the only -6 that ever did make to a 731. As I said earlier, the fuel panel was inverted from all other JetStars, this was/can be confirmed by Flight Safety. There were other minor differences on that airplane compared to the rest of the JetStar fleet, but I cannot remember them now, it has been around 10 years since I flew the airplane.

As I said, I did love flying the JetStar, you had to try really hard to look bad in that airplane, especially on landing.

(It would be nice to know the real truth about that airplane, as I stated I was repeating what the FAA told us.)

I just had a thought, could the one in Seattle be the first non-civilan JetStar and the one the FAA and we operated the first civilan JetStar? Just an idea.
Click to expand...

Okay I did a Google search and here is what I came up with. The JetStar you flew was actually #2. The original prototype remained in the 2 engine configuration and was in fact the airplane that Kelly Johnson rode around in. Serial #1 is at the Boeing Museam of Flight Restoration Center at Paine Field. WA. Don't know what happened to the one you flew but I'll bet someone at the museam knows it's whereabouts today, assuming it was not cut up. The one uo there has a single wheel landing gear as opposed to a dual set up. How was yours configured? The -6 to 731 conversion is questionable as the AF, who had all -6 airplanes was never able to upgrade to the 731, which they wanted very badly at one point in time. I suppose your aircraft was a true hybrid. Was it on a normal Airworthiness certificate?

Enjoyed this post, as it always interesting to learn something from the guys who were there and actually had some first hand knowledge. Take a look at rbogash.com/jetstar.html for more info.
 
First off thank you very much for the research on this Spooky 2 .

I do believe you are correct. It would be nice to know what happened to that airplane, for all I know it is still sitting at a College/Mechanic School in Kansas.

As for your question on the main gear it had dual wheels and I really can't remember if we had a Standard Airworthiness Certificate or not. We flew under 'Public Use' regulations which basically meant is was to the Government Agency in regards in how to operate the aircraft. However, I'm pretty sure we did have a Standard Airworthy Certificate, because the FAA issues them and we got the airplane from the FAA.

Now, whether this particluar JetStar was actually considered legally airworth is another question.

Anyway, thanks again.
 
yea, but.......

Guys, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the stories. I think it is great to hear them, but......this is not what I am asking about.

I am asking if anyone knows where I can find a picture (on the internet) of the JetStar that was modified to remove the four TFE731 engines and install two General Electric CF34 engines.

Here is the FAA STC on the mod:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSC.nsf/9f3a6784c2775ea485256a46004fefbd/e0ff3a50469f0e3186256ee00040e283!OpenDocument
 
Gatorman said:
Guys, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the stories. I think it is great to hear them, but......this is not what I am asking about.

I am asking if anyone knows where I can find a picture (on the internet) of the JetStar that was modified to remove the four TFE731 engines and install two General Electric CF34 engines.

Here is the FAA STC on the mod:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSC.nsf/9f3a6784c2775ea485256a46004fefbd/e0ff3a50469f0e3186256ee00040e283!OpenDocument
Click to expand...

Try contacting the maintenance school located in Vancover. If they have the airplane they may have a lot of photos also.
 
slickmagneto said:
Try contacting the maintenance school located in Vancover. If they have the airplane they may have a lot of photos also.
Click to expand...

I think you missed the point Slick. The airplane that WAS up in CYVR is the same airplane that is now at the Boeing Museam facility. I'm clueless about where one would locate those photo's.

Google has 10+ pages of JetStar stuff so if one wanted they could sift through it and maybe find some info or pictures of the airplane in question.
 

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