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Live camera in the cockpit? Just say no!

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FL000

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
1,577
There's talk again about cameras in the cockpit. The new twist is that they will be live rather than recorded so that they can intercede in the event of a hijacking. I have a severe problem with this. If this advances, there must be something we can do as a group to keep big brother out of our cockpits.

-----------------

story from CNN

FAA testing cameras on planes

Saturday, October 4, 2003 Posted: 10:34 AM EDT (1434 GMT)

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (AP) -- The federal government is looking into putting video cameras on commercial flights so people on the ground could monitor pilots and passengers and get an early warning of hijackings or other trouble on board.

The Boeing Co. demonstrated a satellite system to Federal Aviation Administration officials in two test flights early this year, showing how images could be sent from a plane to the ground, said John Loynes, an FAA program manager in Washington. A Boeing 737, equipped with seven cameras, transmitted images of the cockpit and cabin.

Pilots have fiercely opposed efforts to put cameras in cockpits as an infringement of their authority. Passenger advocates have supported cameras as a way to prevent terrorist acts.

FAA officials stressed that the tests, conducted in January and February, were preliminary. There will be further tests and the agency is far from deciding whether or how to use the technology, said Marcia Adams, an agency spokeswoman.

About 20 federal and Boeing workers, most of them engineers, were on board the round-trip flights from Seattle, Washington. Federal air marshals also tested Boeing technology that allows the use of hand-held devices to transmit video and to speak with and send data from the air to workers on the ground, Loynes said.

One camera showed the pilots from behind, one was in first class and the others showed the rest of the passenger area. Workers on the ground, at Boeing offices in Seattle and in McLean, Virginia, could choose which camera view to look at by touching a computer screen, said Joseph J. Tedino, a Boeing spokesman.

Loynes described the tests as successful, with a few glitches in which video images were briefly garbled.

"There were no insurmountable problems," he said.

The tests were part of Boeing's 2002 contract with the FAA to test various security technologies.

Opposition from pilots
Boeing officials discussed the technology at a recent security conference in New Orleans, Louisiana. The city of Denver, Colorado, uses a similar video system to monitor part of its public transit system.

For more than a decade, the FAA has considered various plans to put video cameras in airplanes. In 2000, National Transportation Safety Board officials pushed a plan for cockpit cameras, saying they aid air crash investigators.

The proposal was dropped after stiff opposition from pilots, who were concerned that cameras could lead to a dilution of pilots' control over decisions made during flights. Pilots said workers on the ground could misinterpret video images and give orders based on incomplete information.

But advocates for air passengers say cameras would make air travel safer by preventing terrorism and hijackings.

David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said cameras would allow officials to assess the seriousness of a disturbance in the cabin. Officials on the ground could then talk about the problem with the flight crew members, who could learn about the situation without having to leave the cockpit.

"In the old days, one of the flight crew could come out and check things out, but they can't do that anymore," Stempler said. "These days, we want to keep the cockpit impenetrable to terrorists or hijackers."
 
This was actually tried a few times.....

In fact back in 1979, when AA Flight 191 crashed in Chicago, the passengers were watching a video feed from the flightdeck..... I believe this practice stopped soon afterwards.

And to say that the FAA or your own company wouldn't use it for other reasons....is just a plain lie....

Can you imagine the first time some TSA flunkie watching the camera feed sees a pilot pop open a paper in cruise? He'll probaly freak out and call a supervisor...
 
I've got no problem at all with a camera in the cockpit...

As long as management has cameras in their offices that I can review.
 
Jerar999,

What the heck!!!!! Is your Avatar for real, or is it enhanced.

oh by the way good idea about the cameras in all the offices of top management.
 
I want cameras in dispatch. Anyone else tired of getting no response from them when fuel gets low and there are no filed alts on the release???? Just curious as to what kind of card games or grab ass is going on in there.
 
I'm all for CABIN cameras, they have the potential to help prevent hijackings. Cockpit camers, on the other hand, would serve absolutely NO purpose other than to keep tabs on the pilots. By the time the camera shows a hijacker in the cockpit- it's too late!!
I call bullsh!t on this lightly veiled attempt by the TSA to further infringe on our rights. I will never fly with a camera watching over my shoulder. Say NO to big brother!!
 
Simon Says

I think the avatar is real, but I just found it while browsing, maybe someone else knows the full story, or if it's even real.
 
Cost to much!

I don't think we will have a problem. For one thing, the system would cost a fortune and airlines surely will not want that. Additionally, who can watch all of those flights at one time?? Think of the number of aircraft one carrier could have in the air at any given time. Delta, ASA, and Comair for instance. Probably over a hundred in the air every muniute of the day. Night might be a little easier. On a third note (I know, I'll stop after this one), the amount of bandwidth needed by satelite communication systems would be phenominal for live feed. Only something like a pulse feed (minutes or hours sent at a given time) would have to be used untill a dedicated satelite feed could be set up.
OK, did that make you feel better? :eek: Guess not.:rolleyes:
 
There would be no way to secure the video feed to the ground if it was being transmitted live. And how many people would it take to watch 2000 video monitors for signs of trouble? Talk about a juicy score for the media, too. How long do you think it would take for dramatic footage of an accident from the cockpit-cam to wind up on TV? The media already doesn't respect CVR recordings- video footage would be even more desirable.


Hey Riddley- you got any Beemans'?
 
Sounds like it might be a good time to break out the gorilla mask in flight and look into the camera...Or ape looking hairy gloves to have on the controls in flight that the camera can see :)
 
Remember in science class, when the teacher would point to the lab rat in an enclosed "see through" container. It was instructive and entertaining, unless you were the rat! To further illustrate, a couple hundred years ago, a certain gentleman phrased it well when he said: "give me liberty, or give me death." Bottom line is, people detest being gawked at and recorded. Oh yes, you will be recorded. It'll be just like the CVR's, except instead of the past 30 minutes, it'll be the entire time of flight. And you know darn well, there will be some company paper pusher "monitoring" the cockpit to ensure compliance with company SOP. It is an infringement on the Captain's authority and it is a stampede on our right to privacy. Hell, as it is now, just going to the bathroom is an evolution is itself. Now their going to watch you pick your nose or read the latest issue of Playboy.
 
"But advocates for air passengers say cameras would make air travel safer by preventing terrorism and hijackings."

Maybe closed circuit cameras in the cabin that would allow pilots to monitor the cabin but some TSA schmuck on the ground? NOT!IMHO, God forbid this happening again but if cameras are installed like they propose all it would do is give someone on the ground more notice to witness something out of the norm so they can dispatch an F-15 to shoot them down. What if it's misinterpreted by the moron on the ground and the aircraft is shot down because some idiot didn't get credit for his frequent flyer miles and just flipped out?

It's just some sick f*cks that wants to watch it happen.

I am really beginning to lose faith on the intelligence of this government. Truly ignorent and completely stupid!
 
B190Captain said:
Maybe closed circuit cameras in the cabin that would allow pilots to monitor the cabin but some TSA schmuck on the ground? NOT!

Didn't some airline already install cameras in the cabin that could be monitored in the cockpit? I want to say this was Jetblue, but I can't remember offhand. Did this actually happen or was it just a proposal?
 
Yes, we have cameras in the cabin that display video in the cockpit. The prototype was operational over a year ago and there was a lot of press about it at that time. Most of the airplanes are now fully operational, but some are in various stages of upgrade.

The monitor in the cockpit also has the video of the WX channel, but no audio. It can be priceless to see the live regional WX radar pics in flight. It gives you a much better view than the limited scope of your WX radar.

The displays greatly enhance our situational awareness about WX and what is happening in the cabin. I really miss them when I fly an airplane that has not yet been fully converted. We have no plans to record or downlink the video and there are no cameras in the cockpit.
 
ALPA and the other unions better get off their collective arse's and emphatically say NO to another lame and worhtless idea.
But I'm not holding my breath, especially in light of how, to date, were are on public display going through security every day.

As far as the American cockpit cameras. The actual reason they were removed was due to the lawyers. When the DC-10 went down in 79, the lawyers argued (successfully) the passengers emotional trauma prior to death was increased since they "viewed their own deaths" from the video screens. This in turn made the payouts much higher from the litigation.

Once again it boiled down to the all mighty dollar. Scumbag lawyers may have done us a favor if the ATA remembers this piece of legal dirtywork.
 
I believe that Sun Country also has some of their 737's equipped with video cameras in the cabin.
 
Relax girls. The NTSB held hearings on this about a year ago and ALPA successfully convinced them to put the kabash on the whole idea. Yet another example of your dues at work (that last remark was for all the "unions are outdated" fanatics you see post on this board from time to time.)

I think this is in reference to Mary Butt-head Schiavo whining on CNN last weak about how she "still doesn't feel safe" flying today and cameras in the cockpit would be a good idea.

Instead of asking for statistics (which don't sell) they ask an aviation attorney and publicity-hog about her emotions. Typical scare-mongering journalism.
 
Let's all pitch in and buy Mary Schiavo a brand new Winnebago so she doesn't have to worry about flying anymore. The last thing I need is that troll looking over my shoulder while I work.
 
Screw it, its a security risk, some pax could buy a ticket and then study procedures from his seat back tv and view when the cockpit is most vaulnerable.

I plan to fix it 2 ways, circuit breaker, and best of all duct tape on the camera.

F U big brother!
 

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