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uba757

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Posts
356
I am a dual qualified FO/FE on the B727, I fly about 700 hours a year and about 450 are as FO and the rest are as an FE, My total time is about 1900 TT of which 1500 are as an FO on the B727, My company has a req of no less than 3500 TT and 2000 Jet for upgrade to Capt. Because of the dual time issue it is going to take me about 4 more years to upgrade. One of the company Check Airmen tells me to go the Regional rout to get the PIC time, he says that at our company there is no security. One last thing I am the #2 FO on the B727 but the guys under me have more time so they will get upgraded before me and there is no seniority respect, once they are upgraded they will always be senior to me. What do you guys think I should do? Thanks.
 
If you do decide to go the regional route to get PIC you are going to have to be a whore about it. You will not find any regional that can provide decent pay and fast upgrade. It is one or the other. Great Lakes airlines probably has the fastest upgrade 3 months to a year, depending on needs. $15.25/hr 1st year FO. $26/hr 1st year CA. Pinnacle may provide the ability to upgrade immediately, but it all depends on timing. You could get stuck there for 3-4 years before upgrade, not to mention that you would likely be on reserve for a while as CA when the Gulfstream kids finally get enought TT to upgrade. Their pay is decent. Anything else that pays their pilots a respectable rate is 4+ years upgrade. It all boils down to timing.

Good Luck
 
T-prop I dont mind the wait I just want for the rules to be enforced all the time not only when it is convenient for the company. To me it seems that security is the most important thing. "The end justifies the means" if you know what I mean.
 
If job security is what you want, Skywest may be the best place. From what I have heard they have never furloughed and are growing. Of course, there is a first time for everything, most of their flying is with United and Delta. Pay is 19/hr 1st yr FO and 35/hr 2nd yr FO. I think that their upgrade is decent for what they fly.

Hopefully that helps
 
uba757, just wondering. How is it that you are an FO in the 727 with only 1900tt? Did you do the Aeroservice program? Who are you flying for?????
 
Fly no I got really lucky. I got hired as an FE in 1999 with 1000 FE/TT. In 2002 when they decided to upgrade there were no upgrade minimums and with 400 TT they gave me and all the Pilot FE's Simm rides and out of 16 that took the ride only 2 of us made it.
 
Well that tells us a little more; Falcon Air doesn't have the best reputation in the world for "doing right by their pilots" but then again, neither does Pinnacle. They will break the contract in a heartbeat if you let them - a lot of that going on the last 48 hours with the snowstorms.

I'd love to be back on the 72, even had an offer to do it overseas recently, but job security is harder and harder to come by and I know at least here will be stable for the next 3-5 years. Can you say that about Falcon?

I think Falcon made their remaining 72's RVSM compliant so you probably don't have to worry about them going away anytime soon, and 700 hours of flight time isn't that much less than the 900 or so you can realistically expect at a regional and that's busting your tail. What I'm getting at is that even IF you come to a regional and IF you upgrade in a year, within three years you'll be sitting on approximately 3,500 - 4,000 hours total time, 1,000 to 1,500 PIC Turbine 121. Sounds good on the surface, but think about who you'll be competing against.

As the market thins itself out (assuming no major carriers fail), Continental will start hiring sometime late this year / early next year. Northwest MIGHT have everyone back by the end of this year. Realistically no BIG hiring booms for another 3-5 years (optimistically). So unless you have an "IN" guaranteed somewhere, all the rest of us regional guys with anywhere from 6,000 to 10,000 hours total time, 4,000 to 6,000 PIC Turbine / Jet are going to be your competition (in other words, guys with twice your experience).

So do you want to leave a decent-paying 727 gig for a crappy-paying regional and start all over again or do you want to hang out for three years, make CA on the 727, and do you gig there as you apply for "bigger and better things"?

Tough call, only you can decide what's better. Good luck.
 
Lear, I also love the 72 it is such a good airplane but Falcon is moving in a different direction. We only have 5 - 72's left and 1 - 73 but they are movind to an MD82 fleet and want to have atleast 5 by summer and 8 by the end of the year. They are not going to transition us to the MD82's untill later this year because they are going to hire pilots of the street. Once that happens my Seniority will be behind those guys again because they really dont care about us. Seniority at Falcon means being a Senior citizen or not.
 
uba757 said:
Lear, I also love the 72 it is such a good airplane but Falcon is moving in a different direction. We only have 5 - 72's left and 1 - 73 but they are movind to an MD82 fleet and want to have atleast 5 by summer and 8 by the end of the year. They are not going to transition us to the MD82's untill later this year because they are going to hire pilots of the street. Once that happens my Seniority will be behind those guys again because they really dont care about us. Seniority at Falcon means being a Senior citizen or not.
I guess it depends who you are trying to impress with flight time. If you go with a regional you're looking at several years in the right seat of something significantly smaller before you get to the left seat. I don't see how that will improve your resume during the next few years. I wouldn't worry about seniority though....you got a good deal to get to the right seat of the 727 and those street hires will not be there forever. You may have another good deal coming in the future if you stick it out. Flight time requirements have been know to change and it might work out for you again. Good luck.
 
feedback

uba757 said:
Lear, I also love the 72 it is such a good airplane but Falcon is moving in a different direction. We only have 5 - 72's left and 1 - 73 but they are movind to an MD82 fleet and want to have atleast 5 by summer and 8 by the end of the year. They are not going to transition us to the MD82's untill later this year because they are going to hire pilots of the street. Once that happens my Seniority will be behind those guys again because they really dont care about us. Seniority at Falcon means being a Senior citizen or not.

Hey UBA757 do you know much about the aeroservice program? do you think it would be worth doing? I have been meaning to go to some of their job fairs, they tell me that falcon air hires guys with my flight time as long as they are 727 trained? is this true, I know that aeroservice does guarantee an interview there. What the QOL at flacon air? is it cargo or pax? do you think I should do the Aeroservice program? could you please give me some feedback on the matter. PM me if you like, thanx and good luck to you
 
Flybet3 said:
Hey UBA757 do you know much about the aeroservice program? do you think it would be worth doing? I have been meaning to go to some of their job fairs, they tell me that falcon air hires guys with my flight time as long as they are 727 trained? is this true, I know that aeroservice does guarantee an interview there. What the QOL at flacon air? is it cargo or pax? do you think I should do the Aeroservice program? could you please give me some feedback on the matter. PM me if you like, thanx and good luck to you
Well, the man just said they were phasing OUT the 727, and his position likely along with it. That's the reason I didn't accept a 727 street CA position with them several years ago; no job security when they phase out the aircraft and bring in newer and more fuel economic aircraft which it sounds like they're currently doing.

UBA, sounds like you might need to at least make "plans" for a carrier change in the near future, but I would get every ounce of 727 time you could before you leave unless a "impossible to turn down" opportunity comes along for you to bail to something better before you're "phased out".

Falcon isn't the only 727 operator to have that policy; I hate how airlines do that... and management wonders why labor unionizes. :mad:
 

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