Link to Air Wisconsin TA

[jetdriven]

you guys dont get it do you. Comair and Airwis had no alter-ego to contend with. The economy is in the $hitter. Majors have taken MASSIVE paycuts. thousands of pilots are fuloughed. Most continue to furlough.

we were given a TA to pass or fail and if it failed JO would continue to grow freedom and shrink mesa, just like CCAIR, Aspen, Crown, Liberty express, desert sun, Air LA, Westair, and florida gulf. End result is 1500 Freedom pilots and 1100 Mesa, Air Midwest, and CCAir pilots out of work.

You guys call us scum and whatnot, but how many contracts has Air Wis had? Comair? We are on our SECOND contract. The SECOND. PLUS, it WAS NOT concessionary! We got guaranteed payraises, better workrules, and a better balance sheet for the company to finance RJ's. We have 100 on order and have added 14 in the last few months.

Do you really think UAL is going to continue to pay Air Wis and Skywest the same fat check per departure? Did you really think so when the very existence of UAL is at stake?

jesus, you guys must exist in a vacuum, the economy drives market forces.

Read the 3-31-03 8-K form for ACAI:

The code share partner that accounted for approximately 82% of the Company's revenue in 2002 is in bankruptcy..The Company's future operations are substantially dependent on United's successful emergence from bankruptcy and on the affirmation or renegotiation of the Company's UA Agreement by United on acceptable terms, or on the Company's ability to successfully establish an alternative to the United business and services. If United seeks to renegotiate the terms of the UA Agreements, a renegotiated agreement is likely to be on terms that are less favorable to the Company with regard to operating margins and could possibly result in the deployment of fewer aircraft than currently contracted and/or be less favorable to the Company in other respects, which would adversely affect the Company's earnings and/or growth prospects. There is no assurance that United will successfully emerge from bankruptcy, and United has said that its liquidation is a possibility. If United does not succeed in reorganizing its operations and emerging from bankruptcy, and instead files for a liquidation under Chapter 7 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, the Company would be faced with the prospect of having to quickly find another code share partner or to develop the airline-related infrastructure necessary to operate as an independent airline. The Company anticipates that there would be an interruption in its services during a transition period, the length of which would be dependent on several factors including how soon United liquidates. The Company has commenced planning for these contingencies and will continue to pursue actions management believes appropriate in the event that United liquidates under Chapter 7. There are no assurances that the Company will be able to find another code share partner or be able to compete as an independent airline, and any prolonged stoppage of flying would materially adversely affect the Company's results of operations and financial position. Any failure to timely or successfully implement alternative contingency plans could have a material adverse effect on the Company and its viability.

 

[rightrudder]

Do you really think UAL is going to continue to pay Air Wis and Skywest the same fat check per departure?

Not if they can pay Mesa, Transtates or Chautaqua less. That's where YOU come in. The willingness of pilot groups to accept substandard wages causes a disparity. Now, in order to compete with these low bids, companies which offered a better pilot contract have to make some changes. They come looking to the pilots to do this.

United had negotiated long-term contracts with the current 3 express carriers. Our labor contracts were based on the income to our companies these agreements guaranteed.

Now, here comes bankruptcy by UAL and of course, they want out of the contracts. The 3 express carriers now have to rebid the flying. Your substandard labor contracts now become the measuring stick. If you all had better agreements, we wouldn't be in the situation we are today. You'd be making more money, and we wouldn't be looking at the prospect of taking concessions or losing our UAL flying (and jobs).

By the way, these checks weren't "fat", UAL has been making money on the flying the express carriers are doing. They now want to cut costs wherever they can, understandably. They will make even more $$ with contracts that pay express pilots much less than a fair wage.

Actions do not occur in a void, they have effects on others.

By the way, I read yesterday that Mesa airgroup's profits for the past quarter were double what they were in the same quaarter last year (despite the iraq war and SARS). I guess J.O. is doing better than he led your pilot group to believe. Too bad you guys won't get your share of the fruits of your labor.

 

[terryhfly]

The thing that everyone needs to understand is this AWAC is not loosing money. Why do we have to suffer for United's mistakes? Because the company that pays AWAC is! Weather or not MESA signed a crappie contract has nothing to do with it. Do you really think that UAL or better yet the bankruptcy judge would continue to pay AWAC and the other Express carriers the same amount? Bash away.

Terryhfly

 

[Beantown]

Not if they can pay Mesa, Transtates or Chautaqua less. That's where YOU come in.

Rightrudder, The only problem with this thinking is that there will always be someone with lower costs. If there is not, someone will start a new company that does (Jetblue). When times are tough and companies are in BK, they will seek to maximize profits where ever possible. Yes ACA and Air Wisky make money but they are just contract carriers. Without Majors like United they have nothing.

The funny thing is that by earning a smaller profit margin, ACA and Air Wiskie are actually helping themselves in the long run. They are giving back some money that will help United get out of BK and therefore insuring that they still have someone to work for down the road. Of course no one in aviation likes to think past tomorrow. Half the reason were where we are today.

I say stand strong, help United go BK, then tell me how profitable your companys are! -Bean

 

[avrodriverj85]

Here at Mesaba our management is crying the 9/11 blues, blaming the economy, Iraq, and the pilots for costing them $$.
NWA is losing money, but we are profitable and had a net of $3 million + last qtr. (somewhere in there).

My point is, is that the company is always refering to the "lower cost carriers" as a measuring stick and continues to threaten us with that stick during negotiations, and to make the threat worse, they went out and bought an alter ego carrier - Big Sky.

If Air Willy (a fine pilot group and company) signs a concession letter, that's the new bar that XJ will try and use against us during our mediation process.

So what's this all about? MONEY and how to get the labor for less, pure and simple.

A group of pilot interns were attending one of our RGS awhile back and when asked by a line pilot what's the minimum they'd fly the AVRO for as an FO, one of them said - $15,000/yr. Thankfully, the line pilots attending the class ripped into them.

Attitudes like those have cheapened our profession and have got to stop. We, the pilots have control over that. The job is cool and the rewards are many, but we can't continue to work this way in this vacuum and expect to come out on top. I was hoping that the 1990's had finally ended the PFT era and "I'll work for less because I'll be at a major in 2 years". (PIC TIME, PIC TIME).

Seems like it's still around, but just under a different name and management continues to take advantage of the fact that pilots love to fly and still will give there soul to do it.

As long as ALPA whipsaws us against each other and allows the companys to do the same, we'll always be in this crappy situation.

Just my .02 cents worth.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

The thing that everyone needs to understand is this AWAC is not loosing money. Why do we have to suffer for United's mistakes? Because the company that pays AWAC is! Weather or not MESA signed a crappie contract has nothing to do with it. Do you really think that UAL or better yet the bankruptcy judge would continue to pay AWAC and the other Express carriers the same amount? Bash away.

Terryhfly

T-man, sup??

You went to the road shows and what was the answer to most every question posed?? "we don't know" or "It's uncertain" and my personal favorite "there is no way of knowing" so why would anyone vote for uncertainty?? Never ever under estimate the power of fear!!!! The only flying we will see from UAL is the mountain flying with the 146 (ASPEN UAL's GOLD MINE) because let's face it we will never be lower than mesa, CHQ, or TSA and if you look at that TA closely you will see that if we move one aircraft for UAL be it new or existing flying we will be bound to the company for the duration of this agreement, while we begin flying for some new company. ALPA doesn't know the answers as their attorney stated because if they did and sent us into this thing with wrong info they would be sued, so exit clause for the union is "WE DON"T KNOW"!!!!

I voted NO on this crap and would do it again!!!!

WD.

 

[Mayday911]

The problem with this new LOA TA is that if it passes there will be alot less pilots needed at AWAC (per airplane), and if this TA does not pass then there will be even less.

The sad fact about this agreement also is that if it passes, AWAC will still be head and shoulders above most National carriers in the area of work rules and even compensation.

I personally despise ALPA National and would not trust them for a second, but I do trust our team of ALPA reps.

Everyone needs to make their own descision....good luck to all of us.

Mayday

 

[FLB717]

Ive jumped with AWAC boys in the front office a few times and I have nothing but respect for them. One thing that is strange about the growing relationship between AWAC ans AAI is that our (AAI) pilot group like and supports the growth of RJ's on our routes. It helps all of us do better and I hope it gives AWAC guys a better and more secure future without so much riding on UAL. Oh wait maybe I should start bashing and bad mouthing little RJ pilots a commuter scum and say that they are stealing my job and... ah F-it. Im glad were together keep adding planes and destinations. Good Luck Guys.

 

[eightdriver]

F@#$ UAL, Shoot this thing down guys. They always have another version in their back pocket. I was a Captain at Piedmont and saw how our spineless pilot group voted in a bottom of the industry concessionary contract for a hope of a future. Guess what, they still don't have any RJ's and now that US Air is out of Chapter 11 and on their way to recovery PDT is stuck with their sh@t contract until 2011. Nice move! I left.... And got a job flying corporate. Please Air Wis pilots, don't make this same mistake. Wait it out and see what the next contract they pull out of the a@s looks like. Best of luck saying NO!!!

 

[jimbo]

All pilots,

The voting results on the TA are as follows:

YES:......324
NO.........160
Participation.......86%




I hope this means I will still have a job in the future
Being down in ATL and flying for a great company I guess we don't see the influence United is posing on our brothers on that side of the flying. I hope this works out for the best.