Limitation on ATP?

[Stearmandriver]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anyone had any input about this. I have a limitation on my ATP and both my type ratings which reads "circling approaches VMC only." This limitation is there not because I failed any portion of a checkride (which is obviously impossible), but because my company's policy is to not test pilots on circling approaches, since according to our ops specs, we don't do them unless the weather is VMC anyway. I'm wondering if anyone thinks this could be a negative factor in my job search? Legally, it obviously doesn't matter because I would never be exercising ATP privileges at a part 91 job anyway, and I have no restrictions on my commercial privileges. (I guess if I were to get a job that required an EMB-145 or EMB-120 type, I'd be one notch below someone with the full type, but I'm not looking anywhere that flies them now anyway.) Just wondering if anyone thinks it would be some sort of red flag for a potential employer, or maybe an insurance company issue?

I could get it removed easily enough, I guess, by renting a 310 and demonstrating a circle to a DE, but what a pain in the butt if there's no good reason to do it.

Any thoughts?

 

[pilotyip]

Sign of Air Carrier Program

You would have to do the circle to land in the same type. You would training prior to doing the circle to land. When you apply at your next job, the interviewer seeing the "VMC Circle to Land OnlY" will know you got your type through an air carrier program and most likely did not purchase from a training center.

 

[sleepy]

The next time you are in for a PC check ask the examiner if you can do a circle to land to get rid of the restriction.

 

[User546]

Since all the airline guys I know have that restrictions on their ATP's also, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[Stearmandriver]

The next time you are in for a PC check ask the examiner if you can do a circle to land to get rid of the restriction.

Been trying that for four years... no one will do it. Our training dept used to allow applicants to choose whether or not they wanted to demonstrate a circle on the type ride - the only catch being if you busted the circle, you busted the whole ride. Then, just a few months before my initial upgrade, they stopped doing that because they realized a few people had busted on the circle, and the company was having to pay to retrain and recheck these guys on a procedure they wouldn't need anyway. Cost cutting, ya know.

Yip, I could demostrate the circle to a DE in any multi engine airplane I wanted, to remove the limitation from the ATP. To remove it from the types, yes I'd have to do it in those types, but like I said, not too worried about the types. As for an interviewer knowing I got my training from an air carrier and not a training center, would this be a good or bad thing, do you think?

Thanks!

 

[Chairman]

The limitation is some times put on the type because the aircarft can not circle within the Category A B C D or E terps criteria..........................

 

[XTW]

Since all the airline guys I know have that restrictions on their ATP's also, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

At my former airline, we were not issued restricted type ratings, even as FOs. We trained and checked the circle manuever to minimums even though our company imposed circling minimums were 1000'/3mi. or higher if charted.

 

[pilotyip]

Type Circle to Land

The Feds started this at our airline back in 1999. I do not know what drove it, but a lot airlines ended up doing the same thing at the same time. If you took your initial ATP as part of your type ride, then both your ATP and type would have the circle to land restriction. To remove the circle to land restriction from your ATP could be done in any twin. Then you would not have the restriction on the ATP, but only on the type rated airplane. As on my certificate, after all of type ratings are listed, there is a limitation line that reads DC-9 CIRC APCH - VMC ONLY. It would seem you would still have commercial instrument privileges to circle to land on your certificate. Removing the limitation is almost irrelevant at this stage in your career. If you hired by somewhere that wants you to circle to land, they will check you on your PC.

 

[Stearmandriver]

Thanks Yip. Yeah, that's what happened to me... ATP and initial type at the same time. I agree that it doesn't really seem like it's worth worrying about at this point; the only reason I could think of that might make it a factor is insurance. I haven't dealt with insurance companies a lot, but I know they can be sticklers. I wasn't sure if having an ATP with a limitation on it would cause an insurance company to demand a higher premium for me, since I didn't have a "full" ATP or something. If no one's ever heard of this happening, then I guess it's probably not an issue.