Light plane corporate?

[jknight8907]

I was just sitting here thinking about flying jobs, and came up with a question: How common is it for someone to get a job flying some rich dude's GA plane, like a Cirrus or PC-12? That sounds like it would be a nice job, pay depending.

 

[FlightTraker]

I suppose there may be some good ones out there. I recently interviewed to fly right seat in a Citation for a private owner. Pay was below NBAA and there were no hard days off.

 

[FlierDude]

It's called babysitting, and gets old real quick. OK as a stepping-stone to build turbine time, but keep your options open with your 'dream' job in mind.

 

[User546]

I live in a retirement town, so there's no shortage of old retired guys with airplanes who need babysitting. A lot of people are negative about it, but I personally enjoy it, and always recommend it to new pilots just starting out. You create good friendships with the owners, get to go see some fun places for free, and the best thing for you would be building the experience and getting to expand your repetoire of different aircraft flown.

Currently, I'm reguarly babysitting in a new Mooney, Cessna 310, Baron, and an older V-Tail Bonanza. For a low timer it sure is good experience flying different types of aircraft. It also allows you to put a few extra hours in the logbook to help you on your way as well.

I've also found it to be a very valuable networking tool. Older, wealthier people always seem to have older, wealthier friends as well, and if they like you, they'll always pass you along to the next friend who has an airplane and wants some instruction, or just needs some babysitting as well. And who knows, you might get a big break getting a "real" job with someone they might know that is hiring.

 

[kingaira90]

I live in a retirement town, so there's no shortage of old retired guys with airplanes who need babysitting. A lot of people are negative about it, but I personally enjoy it, and always recommend it to new pilots just starting out. You create good friendships with the owners, get to go see some fun places for free, and the best thing for you would be building the experience and getting to expand your repetoire of different aircraft flown.

Currently, I'm reguarly babysitting in a new Mooney, Cessna 310, Baron, and an older V-Tail Bonanza. For a low timer it sure is good experience flying different types of aircraft. It also allows you to put a few extra hours in the logbook to help you on your way as well.

I've also found it to be a very valuable networking tool. Older, wealthier people always seem to have older, wealthier friends as well, and if they like you, they'll always pass you along to the next friend who has an airplane and wants some instruction, or just needs some babysitting as well. And who knows, you might get a big break getting a "real" job with someone they might know that is hiring.

Do you charge for it? If so how much. If not are you just looking at it as free hours and networking opps? Seems like it would be an easy way to make some extra bucks if you can charge for it on days off from the regular job. And I could figure out which aircraft I need to own when I am old and grey ;-)-kingaira90

 

[User546]

Do you charge for it? If so how much. If not are you just looking at it as free hours and networking opps? Seems like it would be an easy way to make some extra bucks if you can charge for it on days off from the regular job. And I could figure out which aircraft I need to own when I am old and grey ;-)-kingaira90

Typically I don't charge for it, unless the person I'm flying with is really a handful and requries more instruction then observing. I just look at it as two friends going out flying. Typically it's just me sitting over in the right seat keeping it warm, working the radios, just making sure they're keeping out of trouble.

They always use me for their BFR's, IPC's, checkouts. And the real perk is that each guy I fly with lets me use their airplanes when I want to for only the cost of gas. So it all washes out in the end.

It's also understood that if we're going somewhere over night that they pick up my expenses (food, hotel, etc).

Most of the guys I fly are over 65 and they realize that they're too old to be flying their high performance aircraft (like my 83 year old guy in his Mooney) without someone a little sharper sitting next to them. I hope someone is as kind enough to me when I get that age and still can't let go of the flying bug.

 

[some_dude]

If you are required (either by insurance, or because the owner doesn't have an instrument rating, or a BFR, whatever), you really should be charging them.

In other words, if they couldn't go flying without you, you should be getting paid. If you weren't along, would they be paying someone else to go?

If they really are your friends, and are inviting you along because you're good company and they think you would enjoy riding along, then that's fine.

And, for the original poster, generally babysitting jobs with owner pilots are a bad deal. Try to avoid them!

Typically I don't charge for it, unless the person I'm flying with is really a handful and requries more instruction then observing. I just look at it as two friends going out flying. Typically it's just me sitting over in the right seat keeping it warm, working the radios, just making sure they're keeping out of trouble.

They always use me for their BFR's, IPC's, checkouts. And the real perk is that each guy I fly with lets me use their airplanes when I want to for only the cost of gas. So it all washes out in the end.

It's also understood that if we're going somewhere over night that they pick up my expenses (food, hotel, etc).

Most of the guys I fly are over 65 and they realize that they're too old to be flying their high performance aircraft (like my 83 year old guy in his Mooney) without someone a little sharper sitting next to them. I hope someone is as kind enough to me when I get that age and still can't let go of the flying bug.

 

[User546]

If you are required (either by insurance, or because the owner doesn't have an instrument rating, or a BFR, whatever), you really should be charging them.

In other words, if they couldn't go flying without you, you should be getting paid. If you weren't along, would they be paying someone else to go?

No, all these guys are legal and current, however judging by most of their performances, they have no business being! If someone needed me to fly along as you had stated, where I was going to be the sole PIC, then I agree that should be a payment type situation.

I'm more or less just allowing these guys to continue chasing the dream well past their prime, all while keeping them from hurting themselves or others.

For the other poster, one thing you need to keep in mind as well is that if your going to be baysitting that also carries along a lot of liability with it. It may be his airplane, and he's the PIC, but your as fully capable and qualified as well. If he gets himself into a mess, you'll probably carry a lot of the responisbility for it as well. If he busts airspace, YOU busted airspace as well, even if he was flying. You should've been paying attention. This is where babysitting jobs can go bad quickly!

 

[kaj837]

Most of the guys I fly are over 65 and they realize that they're too old to be flying their high performance aircraft (like my 83 year old guy in his Mooney) without someone a little sharper sitting next to them.

Jeez, I will be 65 in a couple of months. I guess I should look you up when I want to fly my airplane.

Just kidding, I have done the same thing with some of the older airport bums in my area. Some do need a lot of baby sitting.

On the other hand, I got a BFR about 4 years ago from a very young CFI, maybe that is relative, in a rented 172, because my airplane was down for the annual. Since spins are prohibited in my airplane, I asked if he wanted to do some spins, and he damn near turned pale at the thought. When we got back he started apologizing and started talking about how spins are unsafe, and that he sees no need to do them, etc.. It was obvious that he had very little knowledge of them. That I find disturbing.

 

[AerroMatt]

Re: Pay for babysitting

I'll remind you what truck drivers say to potential hitch-hikers; "Cash, Grass, or ASS!!! NO ONE RIDES FOR FREE!!!"

If you are serious about this being your profession, you should request renumeration every time you are asked to go up. Otherwise, you cheapen yourself and everyone else trying to make a living out here. This is the sort of "Will Instruct for Free" attitude I have fought against for the last 18 years!

There is a reason the freight operators and regionals pay bottom feeder rates... and that is because there are pilots out there desperate enough to accept dirt wages! If pilots start saying "No thank you, I can't afford to go to work for you" then payscales will start climbing for all. This process needs to begin at the CFI level however.

OK, I'll get back off my soapbox.

 

[FlierDude]

I've also found it to be a very valuable networking tool. Older, wealthier people always seem to have older, wealthier friends as well, and if they like you, they'll always pass you along to the next friend who has an airplane and wants some instruction, or just needs some babysitting as well. And who knows, you might get a big break getting a "real" job with someone they might know that is hiring.

I'm glad it's working for you, as long as you're not being taken advantage of. As far as a 'networking tool', in almost 30 years of doing 91 I've never had a referral from this type of arrangement. I agree with AeroMatt, you should be getting paid something. They'll respect you for it. If they're really your buds, they'll still let you borrow their planes.

 

[User546]

Jeez, I will be 65 in a couple of months. I guess I should look you up when I want to fly my airplane.

Just kidding, I have done the same thing with some of the older airport bums in my area. Some do need a lot of baby sitting.

I thought there for a minute I had offended you! It should be said as well that not all 65 year old pilots are that way. I know some really competent pilots over the age of 65 that have great airmanship! Theres something to be said for pilots who learned to fly a long time ago. They are much different breed then those learning to fly today. Your example is a very good illustration of that as well. The older pilots I've also noticed are a lot more stick and rudder kind of guys, which are always fun to fly with.

If you are serious about this being your profession, you should request renumeration every time you are asked to go up. Otherwise, you cheapen yourself and everyone else trying to make a living out here. This is the sort of "Will Instruct for Free" attitude I have fought against for the last 18 years!

Just for the record Matt, I don't flight instruct for a living. I fly right-seat in a jet for a Fortune 500 company. That's what pays my bills. And I live in a small town of about 30,000 and our home field has no flight school, no rental airplanes, and no full time instructors. I'm not costing anyone any work. I just do it for fun on the side, much as you probably would going up flying with a friend.

I'm completely behind you about not working for free, and not taking below average pay just to fly. It does cheapen the profession, and it's making it harder and harder to make a living in it on the lower levels. I've seen it happen over and over.

I'm glad it's working for you, as long as you're not being taken advantage of. As far as a 'networking tool', in almost 30 years of doing 91 I've never had a referral from this type of arrangement.

That's suprising to hear, because it's been very benefical for me. I just started out flying with one guy who I happened across at the FBO one day, and within a year and a half I was (through direct referral) flying with four other guys on a regular basis. I also picked up two primary students, three or four BFR's, a couple IPC's, and an aircraft checkout, from their referrals as well. Of course I'm sure it varies greatly airport to airport, but I guess I've jsut been very lucky with my oppurtunities.

 

[Alin10123]

I was just sitting here thinking about flying jobs, and came up with a question: How common is it for someone to get a job flying some rich dude's GA plane, like a Cirrus or PC-12? That sounds like it would be a nice job, pay depending.

It's actually quite common. I met an older dude at a club that flies someone's cirrus Sr22 for a living. My instructor for my PPL also got a job flying a cirrus SR20 for someone. Believe it or not, there are some smaller business owners that have the moeny and want the convenience of a smaller aircraft, but dont have the time to learn to fly it and get instrument rated and all of that stuff.

They dont want to deal with the normal airport crap either.

 

[FlyingFisherman]

My company is a smaller company. Does several million a year in business and is expanding into neighboring states. Fly a Cirrus SR22, Mooney and on occasion a TurboToga. Owners are partners in the Mooney and TurboToga and the company has a share of the Cirrus and hires me to fly.

Do a little managing and "consulting" when it comes to aircraft aquisitions in their Rotary group and keeps me plugged into the whats/wheres of the area and enough business to stay afloat without being a "real" cfi making that very real $16/hr.

 

[CaravanMan]

A few years back I used to fly a nice late-model Saratoga for a private company(full-time, salaried position). They had a couple Citations, but another branch of the business was growing, and they needed something to fill the shorter hops. I flew the poo outta that thing. The owner of the company loves airplanes (and helos, he's had a few), but is getting up there in age, so I baby-sat whenever he was up front, which was rare. There was another guy in the company who had his PPL, and I baby sat for him on a lot of trips. I've been outta there for a while now, but still keep in touch with those guys. They still have some smaller planes in the fleet for the short trips. The Toga's gone, but they have a pimped-out Arrow, an Archer and a C-340 in addition to the jets.

 

[rcbullock]

Since spins are prohibited in my airplane, I asked if he wanted to do some spins, and he dang near turned pale at the thought.

I'd have said that it's prohibited unless you are wearing a 'chute or unless you are training for a CFI ticket. (Unless the reg has changed, that's what it's been for a while AFAIK) Must have been a really green CFI or something. No pun intended.

When I did my spin training, we actually exceeded the required amount of spins and flight time required. I thought it was fun. Might as well take advantage.