Letter to USAPA

[Guppiedriver]

awa bud sent me this that is going around...


Ronald xxxxxxx Wrote:

Dear Capt. Bradford,

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on doing something that I have been hoping would happen for the past 30 years, and that is....getting rid of the ALPA curse!

As I prepare to celebrate my 30th anniversary (April 26th, 1978 - April 26th, 2008) with this company and don the service pin with 3 diamonds, I look back on my career here at the combination of Empire Airlines, Piedmont, USair(ways) and now America West. I am greatly concerned about one last bit of ALPA business that may once again come back to haunt this pilot group, DATE-OF-HIRE seniority.

You may or may not remember how ALPA, during a push to unionize smaller airlines during the mid 1980s, was allowed, even encouraged, to make an example of the Empire Airlines pilots. To show what would happen if an ALPA carrier bought you and you were not ALPA, the pilots of Empire Airlines were stripped of their rightful place on a date-of-hire seniority list, and placed BELOW pilots that had not even started training...........sound familiar? I lost 7 years of seniority. I have been punished for the past 25 years. I have been denied the ability to bid holidays off, my choice of schedules, my chance of advancement.

What am I asking you to look at and consider? Just like that time long ago when ALPA failed to abide by a date-of-hire merger policy, and just as USAPA has professed to truly support and demand a date-of-hire integration, I ask that USAPA immediately place ALL Empire pilots (or any other group) in their true positions on our USAirways SENIORITY list so that if and when ALPA returns in one demon form or another (a merger?), USAPA will be able to hold it's head high and state with the utmost truthfulness, that we are, in fact, a DATE-OF-HIRE airline?

I am not asking for a windfall. I have paid the price for 25 years (A loss of about 2.5 million dollars just in DIFFERENCE in PAY). I am just asking that I be able to use my 30 years here to exercise my seniority just like any other pilot on our list. DATE-OF-HIRE is DATE-OF HIRE!!! There can not be any exceptions.....because 'EXCEPTIONS' were what ALPA was all about!

We are now the IN HOUSE UNION....just like Empire Airlines Pilots Association was.............when ALPA shows up again.....are we as USAPA pilots prepared to go to the BOTTOM of the list as Empire did so that ALPA can show, once again, what happens to pilots that defy ALPA's will?

Conditions, restrictions??? If you must...........but put my name and those of my fellow Empire pilot's on the seniority list where they always should have been, according to their DATE-OF-HIRE!!!!!!


Sincerely,

Ronald xxxxxxx
F/O B767-I PHL

Boo-freakin-hoo.

Hey dimwit, Bradford is an FO.

 

[tico]

awa bud sent me this that is going around...


Ronald xxxxxxx Wrote:

Dear Capt. Bradford,

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on doing something that I have been hoping would happen for the past 30 years, and that is....getting rid of the ALPA curse!

As I prepare to celebrate my 30th anniversary (April 26th, 1978 - April 26th, 2008) with this company and don the service pin with 3 diamonds, I look back on my career here at the combination of Empire Airlines, Piedmont, USair(ways) and now America West. I am greatly concerned about one last bit of ALPA business that may once again come back to haunt this pilot group, DATE-OF-HIRE seniority.

You may or may not remember how ALPA, during a push to unionize smaller airlines during the mid 1980s, was allowed, even encouraged, to make an example of the Empire Airlines pilots. To show what would happen if an ALPA carrier bought you and you were not ALPA, the pilots of Empire Airlines were stripped of their rightful place on a date-of-hire seniority list, and placed BELOW pilots that had not even started training...........sound familiar? I lost 7 years of seniority. I have been punished for the past 25 years. I have been denied the ability to bid holidays off, my choice of schedules, my chance of advancement.

What am I asking you to look at and consider? Just like that time long ago when ALPA failed to abide by a date-of-hire merger policy, and just as USAPA has professed to truly support and demand a date-of-hire integration, I ask that USAPA immediately place ALL Empire pilots (or any other group) in their true positions on our USAirways SENIORITY list so that if and when ALPA returns in one demon form or another (a merger?), USAPA will be able to hold it's head high and state with the utmost truthfulness, that we are, in fact, a DATE-OF-HIRE airline?

I am not asking for a windfall. I have paid the price for 25 years (A loss of about 2.5 million dollars just in DIFFERENCE in PAY). I am just asking that I be able to use my 30 years here to exercise my seniority just like any other pilot on our list. DATE-OF-HIRE is DATE-OF HIRE!!! There can not be any exceptions.....because 'EXCEPTIONS' were what ALPA was all about!

We are now the IN HOUSE UNION....just like Empire Airlines Pilots Association was.............when ALPA shows up again.....are we as USAPA pilots prepared to go to the BOTTOM of the list as Empire did so that ALPA can show, once again, what happens to pilots that defy ALPA's will?

Conditions, restrictions??? If you must...........but put my name and those of my fellow Empire pilot's on the seniority list where they always should have been, according to their DATE-OF-HIRE!!!!!!


Sincerely,

Ronald xxxxxxx
F/O B767-I PHL

I believe that fella might be on to something....Purge all of the ills of ALPA's will. Go back and look at each pilot on both lists and if they were ever merged than take their original date of hire at their original airline and forward that....That would be a gigantic step in the right direction and a litmus test of USAPA's creed. How can I write directly to Bradford and show my support for that endeavor. We would be on the way to a new day in unionism......Recognizing that time spent in the craft, no matter the paint job is time spent and therefore counts.........You know in the carpenters union, if you show 8000 hrs of experience you can test straight into a journeyman position..... not quite the same but certainly a similar track. We need to move away from the idea of captain and first officer and move more in the direction of journeyman and apprentice.......you should be able to have two journeymen in the cockpit earning the same wage and then we could turn the whole pay structure into a size issue....Journeyman 19 seats, journeyman 30 seats, journeyman 230 seats etc.....and you could incorporate ratings into that mix.......so if you were rated in a 737 and had time in that you would be paid accordingly....but the union would issue all ratings and if your local had no cause for a specific rating then you would not get it or you would have to move and put your name on another locals list and wait until there was a call for that...............every state would have to become a shop state and that would create the balance.......lots of details to work out by smarter people than me but it would remove labor whipsaw in on fell swoop and eventually we would all benefit from the stability it would bring....union retirement, union medical, union payscale, no longer would those things be negotiated at the airline level......since we have very little bearing one way or the other on the specific airline experience and should really remain behind locked doors anyway......who cares whether it is delta or southwest because it all pays the same.....Let airline companies, like construction companies be successful on their merits not on the backs of their employees.......Just the ramblings of a true union member(the carpenters) who accidentally signed up for this flying gig because they said they had a union..........What a joke.......alpa, ipa, usapa, swapa, apa, npa, fapa, etc.....just a bunch of silver spoon white collar bozoz that never really have had to work a day in their lives.......Fellas, you wear a name tag and a uniform....This aint the military so that makes all y'all blue collar....so get over all yourselves and lets create a real union....or just shut up and go home

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

so get over all yourselves and lets create a real union....or just shut up and go home

But is USAPA that union? A union implies unity, this is no better for the west than alpa was for the east. As long as USAPA rules there will never be any semblance of labor peace at USAirways.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I believe that fella might be on to something....Purge all of the ills of ALPA's will.

Don't forget gov't and management!

Go back and look at each pilot on both lists and if they were ever merged than take their original date of hire at their original airline and forward that....That would be a gigantic step in the right direction and a litmus test of USAPA's creed.

Who should go back? USAPA? I don't think they are advertising such an impossible task.

Recall, with USAPA you can't fix stupid... and that is just talking about East/West..

How can I write directly to Bradford and show my support for that endeavor.

Are you serious? Have you tried the website? Email?

We would be on the way to a new day in unionism......Recognizing that time spent in the craft, no matter the paint job is time spent and therefore counts.........

no matter the paint job! Yeah! Let's make managment pay for it!

That is like buying a tool at Home Depot and expecting Lowes to accept it within their return policy!

You know in the carpenters union, if you show 8000 hrs of experience you can test straight into a journeyman position..... not quite the same but certainly a similar track.

No... actually... its just...not quite the same...

We need to move away from the idea of captain and first officer and move more in the direction of journeyman and apprentice.......

If you build it ...... they will come?

you should be able to have two journeymen in the cockpit earning the same wage and then we could turn the whole pay structure into a size issue....Journeyman 19 seats, journeyman 30 seats, journeyman 230 seats etc.....and you could incorporate ratings into that mix.......so if you were rated in a 737 and had time in that you would be paid accordingly....

Who is you? Me? Them? They?

but the union would issue all ratings

Air Line Pilots Do Not Run Airlines!

Air Line Pilots Do Not Regulate!​

Serious conflict of intrest and safety creditibility issues!!

and if your local had no cause for a specific rating then you would not get it or you would have to move and put your name on another locals list and wait until there was a call for that...............every state would have to become a shop state and that would create the balance.......

I have a headace

lots of details to work out by smarter people than me

Agreed! I think!

but it would remove labor whipsaw in on fell swoop and eventually we would all benefit from the stability it would bring

Not a Hollywood style, one shot, one stroke, one hit solves all problems! And we lived happily ever after?

....union retirement, union medical, union payscale, no longer would those things be negotiated at the airline level......

This might have to happen.

since we have very little bearing one way or the other on the specific airline experience and should really remain behind locked doors anyway......who cares whether it is delta or southwest because it all pays the same.....

But it doesn't.... every airline has different cost structures.

Let airline companies, like construction companies

But they are not. How about this: If Al Queda was Christian. But they are not.

be successful on their merits not on the backs of their employees.......Just the ramblings of a true union member(the carpenters) who accidentally signed up for this flying gig because they said they had a union..........

There is a guy like you who was in the electricians union... and he thinks we should change to be like the electrician unions.

And the Actors Guild....

And...

And....

Look... we are Air Line Pilots.. under the RLA. There is more working against us then the surface shows...

What a joke.......alpa, ipa, usapa, swapa, apa, npa, fapa, etc.....just a bunch of silver spoon white collar bozoz that never really have had to work a day in their lives.......

Doesn't sound too convincing...

Fellas, you wear a name tag and a uniform....This aint the military so that makes all y'all blue collar....so get over all yourselves and lets create a real union....or just shut up and go home

Not sure how long you've been doing this.... but its been talked about for decades.

But if this was so easy... a carpenter could do it!

 

[MCDU]

Empire pilots got protected in their aircraft and got DOH for furlough purpose. So their DOH was in fact used. I would agree on giving them their full rights, but one has to mention that they did in fact get DOH in case of furlough. Just like the Empire F/A's who got theirs changed after not intially getting DOH.

Marty MCDU

 

[BeCareful!]

DOH for furlough here at U would solve a lot of issues.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Careful MCDU-

What has USAPA done lately?

The win was a LONG time ago.

Performance..... where is it?

USAPA needs to prove its worth in results.

 

[PositiveRate]

DOH for furlough here at U would solve a lot of issues.

You're turning into quite the comedian. Shouldn't you be busy volunteering with your buddies and spreading the union spirit?

 

[BeCareful!]

I fail to see what's funny about it...I was simply commenting on what MCDU put out there, that I guess there is precedent of using DOH for some things (furlough) but not others.

So, you're off to a good start this week.

 

[BeCareful!]

Careful MCDU-

What has USAPA done lately?

The win was a LONG time ago.

Performance..... where is it?

USAPA needs to prove its worth in results.

Right.....a long time ago. Heck, in that amount of time ALPA could have passed three resolutions, called a special meeting, formed two new committees, and negotiated a concession package for the next round of negotiations!

 

[WSurf]

I'm well aware of the "morals" at that company from management on down....

But what about the "morale" of the employees and the Pilots?

LOL Thanks, meant Morale! Damn you cheap George Dickel. I guess I better get back to Makers Mark!

 

[PositiveRate]

It's hillarious that you casually make comments like DOH furlough solving problems at US Airways. It's like standing on the deck of the titanic and asking for a new life vest because yours doesn't fit right.

Right now on CNBC they are saying United and US Airways are in advanced talks. This is a freight train coming towards you (and me). Problem is, you and your UscabA buddies have left all of us tied to the tracks.

You guys are singularly focused on the picture in the rear view mirror. Still wearing your yellow lanyard with pride or did you take it off so we don't know who you are?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Right.....a long time ago. Heck, in that amount of time ALPA could have passed three resolutions, called a special meeting, formed two new committees, and negotiated a concession package for the next round of negotiations!

Still waiting...............

Where's Bradford?

 

[PositiveRate]

United, US Airways in 'very advanced' merger talks: report 11:52 a.m. 04/28/2008 By Wallace Witkowski Provided bySAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- UAL Corp. (UAUA), the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways Group Inc. (LCC) are in "very advanced talks" to combine the air carriers, The Associated Press reported Monday, citing a source close to the negotiations.

BeCareful,

I know it feels good to have finally 'won something', but don't come crying to us when this falls apart at your feet one more time. We told you this was going to happen and if/when it does, you UscabA fools are going to account for (at best) about 25% of the total pilot group.

Make no mistake, we are not brothers in this upcoming battle. It absolutely, 100% did not have to be that way, but this is what you wanted...you voted for a group that professed that tryanny of the majority is another word for DEMOCRACY.

Oh the irony...

 

[MCDU]

Hey Positiverate
Everything you have predicted has turned out wrong. Go back and read your posts.
Anyway, Rome was not buildt in a day. USAPA has come a long way in such a few months.

Brothers? We were and never will be brothers. The only other brothers I have right now are my fellow Union brothers in USAPA.

Word is that they are drafting a side agreement that you have to be in good standing to be included in a merger of seniority lists. No scabs and no non union members will be included in our merger list if things go as planned. Subject to member ratification. I hope that this rumour is true. There is a new dog in the house and it will be a real Union.
Not like SCALPA.