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Letter to Delta Pilots

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ERJFO

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Posts
506
From another board:

"Tuesday, April 04, 2006
A Letter To Delta Pilots
Greetings Capt. Moak,

I am a reservations agent in Tampa, Florida and I thought that it might be beneficial to express to you what many of us on the front lines feel about the pilot's position regarding a strike. I don't write this to attack you in any way, and in fact, I am probably more sympathetic than most of my fellow agents. I recognize that nobody wants to have their pay cut and while many of us that make less than $30,000 a year find it difficult to be sympathetic to a work group that averages over $150,000 a year, I recognize that people tend to live up to their means and a cut in pay for anyone is a real and sincere sacrifice.

That being said, I believe that your threat to strike is myopic and self serving. I have read some of the material on the ALPA web site and in a number of places the claim is made that Delta is "Our Airline". I beg to differ. It is not only "your" airline. There are about 6000 pilots out of over 47,000 employees. It is as much my airline as it is yours and yet you hold the power to take action that will not only effect you, but 41,000 other people.

I am certain we could have a healthy debate about contracts and fairness, what you have and have not given, what the company has done or not done ad nauseam. I don't doubt that there is some validity to your position. No side can be completely right in such a matter. But the bottom line is that this is not the same industry that it was 10 years ago. 9-11, the advent of low cost carriers, changes in the dynamics of business travel and rising fuel prices, among other things, have altered the dynamics of the industry forever and an airline simply cannot sustain itself with the cost structure it was once able to. I find it difficult to believe that if you shut down our airline, the people you represent are going to be able to walk out on the street and find jobs making what that would make even if you accept Delta's concession in toto.

One line in your letter caught my attention. It is a sad footnote in Delta's history that in a business where people matter... To be blunt, people are not just pilots and as you chart a course forward, I hope you will take into consideration that there are 41,000 of us out here that your decisions will impact. 41,000 of us that have mortgages, kids to feed, cars to pay for and backs to put clothes on. We have made our own sacrifices, absorbed pay cuts and benefit reductions and we have hung in there because we believe that if we all pull together, we can turn Delta around and bring her back to the great airline she once was. Quite frankly, we are angry that 7.8% of the workforce has power over the rest of us...that 7.8% of the workforce has the capacity to send the other 92.2% of us to the unemployment line. Since it is OUR airline, perhaps all 47,000 of us should vote as to whether you strike or not.

I think I am pretty typical of most of the front line Delta employees. I made less then $30,000 last year. I have taken pay and benefit cuts to stay with Delta. Why? Because I enjoy my job, I enjoy the ability to travel and I have found Delta to be a good company to work for. But, at what I make, I don't have a cushion. I live pretty much paycheck to paycheck and I am basically up the proverbial creek if that paycheck stops, even for a short time. I would guess that most of your pilots have the means to handle a temporary period of unemployment, but most of us on the customer service side do not have that luxury. Is your union going to help me pay my rent and child support if you choose to strike and run this airline out of business?

You have complained that you believe that the company views the threat of a strike as "saber rattling" or empty threats, but I get the impression that you believe the claim that a strike would force a liquidation of the company as an idle threat as well. I have a background in business and a degree and accounting and let me assure you, these are not empty words. Delta Airlines does not have the resources to survive even a short strike. If one looks at the situation objectively, one has to conclude that the pilot's position is based either on ignorance to reality or that you simply do not care what happens to YOUR airline. Either way, it seems pretty foolish from this vantage point.

Finally, I should add that I work in special member services and spend my day talking almost exclusively to medallion level frequent fliers. I talk to between 60 and 100 people a day and I am asked multiple times each day what I think about the possibility of a strike. In all of the months that this has been going on, I have yet to ever have one passenger state that they support your position. Most are sympathetic, but state the obvious...the industry has changed and you would be foolish to strike.

I don't expect this to change your mind, or alter your position, but I felt that it was important, as you move forward, to be reminded of the responsibility you have taken upon yourself. You are not only playing with the lives of the men and women you represent, you are playing with the lives of 41,000 other people, not to mention our passengers, who have entrusted their money and plans to us in the faith that we will get them where they need to go. There is only one word that can be used for a course of action that would negatively impact so many people in such a profound way...selfish. I urge you to endeavor to find some solution to this issue short of shutting down the airline. It is simply not the right thing to do."

Regards
N160LH
 
Well, that's just stoopid.

The writer should have written to the Brain Trust in charge of the company (the ones who are busy writing themselves HUGE checks, and patting each other on the back). Tell them not to overreach and force a pilot strike.

You are not only playing with the lives of the men and women you represent, you are playing with the lives of 41,000 other people, not to mention our passengers, who have entrusted their money and plans to us in the faith that we will get them where they need to go.

I don't think DALPA is playing. As for "faith," management(s) at DL and NW should get some -- good faith.
 
ERJFO said:
From another board:

"Tuesday, April 04, 2006
A Letter To Delta Pilots
Greetings Capt. Moak,

I am a reservations agent in Tampa, Florida and I thought that it might be beneficial to express to you what many of us on the front lines feel about the pilot's position regarding a strike. I don't write this to attack you in any way, and in fact, I am probably more sympathetic than most of my fellow agents. I recognize that nobody wants to have their pay cut and while many of us that make less than $30,000 a year find it difficult to be sympathetic to a work group that averages over $150,000 a year, I recognize that people tend to live up to their means and a cut in pay for anyone is a real and sincere sacrifice.

That being said, I believe that your threat to strike is myopic and self serving. I have read some of the material on the ALPA web site and in a number of places the claim is made that Delta is "Our Airline". I beg to differ. It is not only "your" airline. There are about 6000 pilots out of over 47,000 employees. It is as much my airline as it is yours and yet you hold the power to take action that will not only effect you, but 41,000 other people.

I am certain we could have a healthy debate about contracts and fairness, what you have and have not given, what the company has done or not done ad nauseam. I don't doubt that there is some validity to your position. No side can be completely right in such a matter. But the bottom line is that this is not the same industry that it was 10 years ago. 9-11, the advent of low cost carriers, changes in the dynamics of business travel and rising fuel prices, among other things, have altered the dynamics of the industry forever and an airline simply cannot sustain itself with the cost structure it was once able to. I find it difficult to believe that if you shut down our airline, the people you represent are going to be able to walk out on the street and find jobs making what that would make even if you accept Delta's concession in toto.

One line in your letter caught my attention. It is a sad footnote in Delta's history that in a business where people matter... To be blunt, people are not just pilots and as you chart a course forward, I hope you will take into consideration that there are 41,000 of us out here that your decisions will impact. 41,000 of us that have mortgages, kids to feed, cars to pay for and backs to put clothes on. We have made our own sacrifices, absorbed pay cuts and benefit reductions and we have hung in there because we believe that if we all pull together, we can turn Delta around and bring her back to the great airline she once was. Quite frankly, we are angry that 7.8% of the workforce has power over the rest of us...that 7.8% of the workforce has the capacity to send the other 92.2% of us to the unemployment line. Since it is OUR airline, perhaps all 47,000 of us should vote as to whether you strike or not.

I think I am pretty typical of most of the front line Delta employees. I made less then $30,000 last year. I have taken pay and benefit cuts to stay with Delta. Why? Because I enjoy my job, I enjoy the ability to travel and I have found Delta to be a good company to work for. But, at what I make, I don't have a cushion. I live pretty much paycheck to paycheck and I am basically up the proverbial creek if that paycheck stops, even for a short time. I would guess that most of your pilots have the means to handle a temporary period of unemployment, but most of us on the customer service side do not have that luxury. Is your union going to help me pay my rent and child support if you choose to strike and run this airline out of business?

You have complained that you believe that the company views the threat of a strike as "saber rattling" or empty threats, but I get the impression that you believe the claim that a strike would force a liquidation of the company as an idle threat as well. I have a background in business and a degree and accounting and let me assure you, these are not empty words. Delta Airlines does not have the resources to survive even a short strike. If one looks at the situation objectively, one has to conclude that the pilot's position is based either on ignorance to reality or that you simply do not care what happens to YOUR airline. Either way, it seems pretty foolish from this vantage point.

Finally, I should add that I work in special member services and spend my day talking almost exclusively to medallion level frequent fliers. I talk to between 60 and 100 people a day and I am asked multiple times each day what I think about the possibility of a strike. In all of the months that this has been going on, I have yet to ever have one passenger state that they support your position. Most are sympathetic, but state the obvious...the industry has changed and you would be foolish to strike.

I don't expect this to change your mind, or alter your position, but I felt that it was important, as you move forward, to be reminded of the responsibility you have taken upon yourself. You are not only playing with the lives of the men and women you represent, you are playing with the lives of 41,000 other people, not to mention our passengers, who have entrusted their money and plans to us in the faith that we will get them where they need to go. There is only one word that can be used for a course of action that would negatively impact so many people in such a profound way...selfish. I urge you to endeavor to find some solution to this issue short of shutting down the airline. It is simply not the right thing to do."

Regards
N160LH

Who cares what this reservations agent has to say. They are easily replaced and don't need much training or education, they are very ependable.
 
Thursday, April 13.

Dear Surgeons:

I am a custodial engineer here in St Bartholemews and have been for the past 30 years. Please take what I say as a disrespectful, but if you go on strike I and about 4,000 employees will likely be out of a job. I have a very difficult job deciding which wax to use on the floors, which sanitizer to use on the toilets -- not to mention the occuptaional hazards of working in a hospital.
I understand you spent years and years and lots of money gaining your credentials and experience while I fell into this job after getting my high school GED. I realize you all have a contract that was signed and agreed to by management but has subsequently been torn up by successive hospital management teams that come and go here every other year. I realize I had the opportunity to join a union here but -- since we are a "family" organization and I mistrust unions in general -- I voted it down (and now management doesn't have to negotiate with us -- they just decide the next round of furloughs/paycuts on their own.)
In all honesty, can't you really just get by on $140,000/yr instead of $200,000? Can't you let the nurse practitioners do more of the "bigger" surgeries?
 
I look forward to reading this agents remarks when his job is outsourced to India.

For a Seven Hundred and Fifty Seven, Press one,
For a Seven Five Six, Press two.
 
ERJFO said:
One line in your letter caught my attention. It is a sad footnote in Delta's history that in a business where people matter... To be blunt, people are not just pilots and as you chart a course forward, I hope you will take into consideration that there are 41,000 of us out here that your decisions will impact. 41,000 of us that have mortgages, kids to feed, cars to pay for and backs to put clothes on. We have made our own sacrifices, absorbed pay cuts and benefit reductions and we have hung in there because we believe that if we all pull together, we can turn Delta around and bring her back to the great airline she once was. Quite frankly, we are angry that 7.8% of the workforce has power over the rest of us...that 7.8% of the workforce has the capacity to send the other 92.2% of us to the unemployment line. Since it is OUR airline, perhaps all 47,000 of us should vote as to whether you strike or not.

I wonder when the last time that he made a decision that affected 130+ people was. I wonder when the last time one of the other 41,000 had to pass a checkride, or a bi-annual physical. I wonder when the last time a FED watched everything that one of those other 41,000 did for a couple of hours looking for the smallest mistake.
 
GogglesPisano said:
Thursday, April 13.

Dear Surgeons:

I am a custodial engineer here in St Bartholemews and have been for the past 30 years. Please take what I say as a disrespectful, but if you go on strike I and about 4,000 employees will likely be out of a job. I have a very difficult job deciding which wax to use on the floors, which sanitizer to use on the toilets -- not to mention the occuptaional hazards of working in a hospital.
I understand you spent years and years and lots of money gaining your credentials and experience while I fell into this job after getting my high school GED. I realize you all have a contract that was signed and agreed to by management but has subsequently been torn up by successive hospital management teams that come and go here every other year. I realize I had the opportunity to join a union here but -- since we are a "family" organization and I mistrust unions in general -- I voted it down (and now management doesn't have to negotiate with us -- they just decide the next round of furloughs/paycuts on their own.)
In all honesty, can't you really just get by on $140,000/yr instead of $200,000? Can't you let the nurse practitioners do more of the "bigger" surgeries?

Goggles,
Just had to re-post that as it was/is fantastic.

-Blucher:laugh:
 
AdamKooper said:
Who cares what this reservations agent has to say. They are easily replaced and don't need much training or education, they are very ependable.

That is pretty crude, regardless of whether it was intended to be sarcastic.
Most regional airlines, if not all nowadays, do not require pilots to hold a degree. The training is irrelevant. The two jobs are not even close to being similar.

It is just shameful that this letter was made available to the public, especially on this board. I do not know...it must be fun to watch work groups bashing each other.

Do you honestly expect other work groups to keep quiet and stay seated on the benches? The reality is that the agent is correct. The pilots do in fact hold the cards, and yes they do know it.

So if the letter had been written by a flight attendant instead, the same comment pertaining to education and training could have easily been said then.

Btw, many customer service jobs have been outsourced and also replaced by electronic check-in units. Automation is the wave of the future whether we like it or not. Look at the automotive industry.

Enough of the bashing already, please.
 
Yeah...

Is there any proof that this was actually written by an agent?

I would bet $$$ that it came from Ford & Harrison/Golin Harris or whatever PR/Slimeball agency Delta is shoveling money at these days. I mean, this seriously looks like boilerplate PR language that gets trotted out every few years in an attempt to make pilots feel bad about having a strong union.

The letter implies that Delta pilots are stupid. That's not true. They will evaluate their choices and decide which of the options (strike/sign) is less stinky.
 
If this so called "agent" had changed careers 10 years ago and eventually became a Delta pilot, you think they would still write this letter? heck no.
 
Great letter!!! Even ALPA admits they average roughly $150,000 per year. Sorry the time has come to quit whining. Quit living in the past and quit whining about how much training you have to go through. We all freely choose to do what we need to do to get to our position. Time to do what it takes to survive. All the other airlines are just begging you to strike so they can get your flying when you liquidate. Going from $150,000 to $0 is a much worse paycut. Unfortunately it appears some still suffer from "entitlement" syndrome.
 
Whether or not you like unions, DALPA is the only reason why Delta (mis)management has not had their way with the pilot group like they have with all the other nonunionized work groups.

I bet AFA is salavating at the potential to finally unionize the FA's after the ******************** sandwhich they were served.
 
Duh Angelo said:
Great letter!!! Even ALPA admits they average roughly $150,000 per year. Sorry the time has come to quit whining. Quit living in the past and quit whining about how much training you have to go through. We all freely choose to do what we need to do to get to our position. Time to do what it takes to survive. All the other airlines are just begging you to strike so they can get your flying when you liquidate. Going from $150,000 to $0 is a much worse paycut. Unfortunately it appears some still suffer from "entitlement" syndrome.

Hey Duh Angleo,

If we want anymore $hit out of you, we'll just squeeze your head. :angryfire
 
D'Angelo said:
Great letter!!! Even ALPA admits they average roughly $150,000 per year. Sorry the time has come to quit whining. Quit living in the past and quit whining about how much training you have to go through. We all freely choose to do what we need to do to get to our position. Time to do what it takes to survive. All the other airlines are just begging you to strike so they can get your flying when you liquidate. Going from $150,000 to $0 is a much worse paycut. Unfortunately it appears some still suffer from "entitlement" syndrome.

Listen, and listen good you stupid POS! The avg pilot pay (based on $150,000) is pre LOA 46, and it is including the overtime flown. If you would take your head out of your a$$ long enough to hear, the avg pay for a 7th year M88 f/o (since there is nobody on property longer than that) is $65,000. Yes that's right, less than a 7th year CRJ cpt at ASA! If dumb were dirt, you'd cover an acre!
I can't wait until you are out on the street and the only job you can hold is Mc Donalds! How in the world CMR hired you is beyond comprehension. Now, go back and try to find some open time to fly on your days off, remember you are paid too high! BTW did your parents have any kids that lived?
737
Stupid is no longer an excuse for you to be this ignorant!
 
BID said:
If this so called "agent" had changed careers 10 years ago and eventually became a Delta pilot, you think they would still write this letter? heck no.

Probably not, and that is exactly why this letter was supposedly written. He/she is not a pilot.
 
DashCojones said:
...and he made less than $30k last year?

There was a time when you could make a decent career as a customer serivce agent. Most CS supervisors do not even make it to $30,000 a year, even after 20 years of service.

This is not an industry that rewards employees holding a degree.
 
Not so sure about that pay rate for CS reps. My neighbor is a phone resv agent manager, albiet she has been with Delta for @ 20 years, but she makes @87,000 a year.

and yes, ive seen the w2's.. I couldnt believe it.
 
I think it is great that Delta pilots are going to possible strike. If they dont airline management will have the upper hand at Delta and all of the other airlines management will follow. Someone needs to stand up no matter what it takes or what the actions that might follow be. Good luck to you guys at Delta
 
bailout said:
Not so sure about that pay rate for CS reps. My neighbor is a phone resv agent manager, albiet she has been with Delta for @ 20 years, but she makes @87,000 a year.

and yes, ive seen the w2's.. I couldnt believe it.

I believe the pay tops out at around $17 more or less at most regional airlines for CS agents. Top pay seems to occur at around 12-15 years. Supervisors average $1.50-3.00 override. I don't know about managers, however.

I'm not sure about the top pay at major airlines. Though I have many friends who are furloughed UAL CS agents, now working for a UAX carrier. The most senior ones (18 years with the company) used to be paid around $25-27/hour, now down to $18 and some change, ouch!

$87,000 is definitely a decent chunk of money!
 
One major factor that needs to be taken into consideration is that there are many people in the industry and outside who are either misinformed or not informed at all about the current negotations between Delta and its pilots.

Some only hear what they want to hear, others have inaccurate preconceived notions of what's going on. Those folks can't necessarily be blamed. Even the media does not report it as it is.

I agree that a 7th year MD88 FO should make more than a 7th year CRJ CA. So much disparity is not acceptable.

Yet again, some would say that $65,000 is more than enough. :rolleyes:

Pilots are paid for the responsibility and safety of 30 - 500+ passengers. Responsibility is expensive!

Yes I understand and support Delta pilots, and yes I do sympathize with that (fictitious?) reservation agent.
 
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I fully support the Delta pilots. As for the CS agent....he/she obviously is only hearing what they want to hear. I have talked with many people about the industry and they ALL say that they don't want a pilot who is constantly being asked for sacrifices in control of their plane… and life. They want the best pilots, with the best credentials and the best attitudes flying so that they are safe.

So, while that person who hasn't invested anything in their career (relative to a pilot) says that they don't hear anyone sympathetic to the pilots, I highly doubt they are listening let alone keeping a record, or asking people what the customers think while they are working. Any if they are, then they aren't a very good customer service agent and they should be paid even less than $30,000.

The facts:

Pilots cannot not be easily replaced (except with gjet pilots)
They are highly trained
It takes many years to be a pilot
They are responsible for 20 million to 200 million dollar pieces of equipment
They are responsible for the lives of countless people that a monetary value cannot be placed
They cannot start over with another carrier without taking extreme pay cuts (sometimes making less than the customer service agent)

So in short, anyone who thinks that pilots are not worth the money should reevaluate the facts!
 
"We all freely choose to do what we need to do to get to our position."

That is why they have the card in their hand. If they are unhappy, let them strike.

They deserve that card after all the sacrifices, training, time away from home, prior military sacrifies protecting the country, etc. They have earned it.

There is a reason 7.8% can control the company. Good luck and you are respected.
 
Dear delta pilot's, please dont strike. I will be furloughed, bla bla bla bla bla bal.... Hey the good news is i can make more on un-employment.

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!

Back em up.
 
ReportCanoa said:
Shut it down.

We all knew one had to go to lower capacity and accelerate the airline industry recovery. I didn't think it was going to be Delta, but it is starting to look like it. Does anybody know how the unemployment office works, is it kind of like getting new license plates, does it take all day, are the checks direct deposited?
Thanks in advance.
 

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