Let's Start a New Union at ASA

[sunlitpath]

Look how scared everyone gets when you offer them freedom. Alpa gives me nothing for my money. They give Skywest nothing either, and their pilots do not have to pay 2% of their salary. I think many of you have good intentions supporting ALPA, but the value just isn't there. In fact, I think ALPA may have damaged our company and this industry more than they have helped it. I still think we can do better at ASA.

 

[JumpersAway]

Value? Better for me to pay 2% and have legal and medical to tap if I need it than to pay 1 or even .5 % and have nothing but empty promises and a totally ineffective negotiating party.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This may come as a surprise, but as of now, I am not in support of getting rid of ALPA. Remaining in ALPA gives us one powerfull tool....The threat of a DFR lawsuit against ALPA. The RJDC settlement agreement does not apply if we leave ALPA....It's a heck of a reason to "support" remaining in ALPA..but it is what it is at this point.

That being said, I would like to see an independent group form with the Skywest pilots, that can pave the way for eventually splitting off from ALPA. IMO, it is ALPA that is keeping us from a single list with Skywest...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

They wasted a lot of money, sure, but it was based on the appearance of SkyWest pilots wanting a union. Turns out, they just wanted a pay raise by scaring management into thinking so.

After being burned a couple times over there, I don't think ALPA will drop everything and respond to the cries of pilots who want to unionize next time. Given that the pilots' compensation package at SkyWest is in direct correlation of how likely management feels unionization is a possibility, SkyWest pilots might find it's not so easy to get a pay raise next time.

People don't change until the belief of change is better than the painfully reality of the status quo...

I wouldn't support ALPA bringing on OO pilots until their pain is strong enough to make the organizing effort ........effortless....

Not that I wish hard times on anyone... but we've all been in pain.... the market can be a real bitsh.....

 

[PCL_128]

How much money has ALPA wasted, total, trying to schmooze the SkyWest pilots into buying their snake oil?

Far too much. You won't see that mistake happen again. Once Jerry is gone (and he will be gone at some point), the pilots will see things change for the much worse, and then they'll come begging ALPA to help. Until then, I don't think you'll see another organizing drive at Skywest.

Look how scared everyone gets when you offer them freedom.

No one is "scared." We just think you're a twit.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Look how scared everyone gets when you offer them freedom. Alpa gives me nothing for my money. They give Skywest nothing either, and their pilots do not have to pay 2% of their salary. I think many of you have good intentions supporting ALPA, but the value just isn't there. In fact, I think ALPA may have damaged our company and this industry more than they have helped it. I still think we can do better at ASA.

Can you justify it, rather than simply saying it?

 

[sunlitpath]

A twit huh. You are a fat little school girl who picks her nose. That still doesn't solve this problem. ALPA doesn't spend four million dollars at ASA. I bet in the last year they didn't even spend $10,000, and that was probably on postage for letters asking if we still love them. I am not buying all this nonsense anymore. What medical or legal coverage are you talking about? Those protections are already in place through other measures. For example, your AME or aviation attorney. All the thousands of dollars that I have spent over the years on ALPA dues would amount to a personal legal and medical fund worth over $20,000, for just me; which I never used even once. As for contract negotiations, that's a joke. We are average pay and ok work rules. Thanks for nothing. I will keep my money. You are not only a twit, you mundane dolt.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Look how scared everyone gets when you offer them freedom. Alpa gives me nothing for my money. They give Skywest nothing either, and their pilots do not have to pay 2% of their salary. I think many of you have good intentions supporting ALPA, but the value just isn't there. In fact, I think ALPA may have damaged our company and this industry more than they have helped it. I still think we can do better at ASA.

Are you for real?! The ONLY thing that has propped up the payrates, work rules, etc. at SkyWest has been the threat of a Union. You take away the influence of ALPA, Teamsters, etc and the pilots at SkyWest would be in a much less desireable situation.

I agree that ALPA needs a major overhaul but having said that, no other organization has done more to improve safety, pay, work rules, etc. in this industry than ALPA. We are all simply enjoying the fruits of those who sacrificed so much many years ago. Do some research on how things were before ALPA. Or you could leach off of those who fight battles for us day after day in Washington like the SkyWest pilots do. Where have their SAPA reps been during the congressional hearings? during open skies talks? during aircraft certification? etc. Having worked for SkyWest a number of years, I can tell you they were probably in one of two places: 1.Under Jerry's desk or 2.On his house boat. I believe in Karma and also believe that the day will soon come when the SkyWest pilots will reap what they sow. They better enjoy the free ride while they can cause it won't last forever.

 

[Freebrd]

is sunlituphisass really brian wilson (u know, of the beach boys) :beer:

 

[JumpersAway]

Sunlit- you're getting downgraded, so I am 100% sure you haven't spent any 20k+ on union dues...........you've been here for 5 years, max. I know you're pi$$ed about getting downgraded, but welcome to the club- been there, done that, got that t-shirt already.................from last year. Medical and Legal help from another source- possibly, but increadibly expensive and prohibitive.

Frankly, if looks like you are pinning your situation on ALPA, despite the fact they haven't been the one to force your downgrade. What do you want, ALPA, or another union to FORCE Delta to provide enough flying for ASA to keep you in your seat? If you get this irritated everytime you get displaced, furloughed, or downgraded, you need to find another career, because there simply isn't enough unions/organizations to blame over the course of your career.

Even if we did go for an independent union, who would lead it? I'd be willing to bet you'd be one of the candidates to run, and from your posting here, I'm not that impressed with your thought processes and reasoning. I don't think many other pilots would buy off on your argument regarding insurance and medical.

 

[JumpersAway]

is sunlituphisass really brian wilson (u know, of the beach boys) :beer:

No, it's not B.W.

 

[superatr]

A twit huh. You are a fat little school girl who picks her nose. That still doesn't solve this problem. ALPA doesn't spend four million dollars at ASA. I bet in the last year they didn't even spend $10,000, and that was probably on postage for letters asking if we still love them. I am not buying all this nonsense anymore. What medical or legal coverage are you talking about? Those protections are already in place through other measures. For example, your AME or aviation attorney. All the thousands of dollars that I have spent over the years on ALPA dues would amount to a personal legal and medical fund worth over $20,000, for just me; which I never used even once. As for contract negotiations, that's a joke. We are average pay and ok work rules. Thanks for nothing. I will keep my money. You are not only a twit, you mundane dolt.

Just to say it again... Why did you go to work for a Union carrier? There are plenty of non-union jobs that you could have picked and been much happier at.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Just to say it again... Why did you go to work for a Union carrier? There are plenty of non-union jobs that you could have picked and been much happier at.

Actually, that isn't a good argument...Most of us went to work for the first carrier that called us, and didn't understand the union issue at all....Some of us also volunteered for ALPA after we got hired...and still don't support ALPA...

We can't dump ALPA at this point because of the DFR protection it affords us...however your excuse doesn't fly....Most of us would be equally happy at Skywest at this point without ALPA.....