Legal right-seat time?

[OState597]

Maybe someone can help me out here. I've been given the chance to fly corporate trips in the right seat of a 421, though I am obviously not the primary pilot. The aircraft is rated for single pilot operations, however I have an MEI certificate, which says I'm legal to teach in this category and class. So in order for me to log PIC here, I have to log "Instruction Given" Am I stretching the rules here, and will the airlines question my PIC time in this 421???

Thanks for any replies!

 

[Timebuilder]

I'd like to hear how you might justify giving multiengine lessons to a pilot who is already the designated PIC. If you are not current in the airplane, and can be permitted to manipulate the controls, you could get the time as dual received if the pilot has his MEI.

Are you stretching? Yes, I'd say so.

Here is a recent discussion that, while not a duplicate of your question, might provide some food for thought.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32282

It's a little long, about three pages, and there are a few attitudes (no surprises there) but you may gain some new insights.

 

[IFlyGC]

Well, before you can teach in any twin you need to have 5 hours in make and model....so technically you'd need to be the "PIC" for 5 hours. If the regular left seat guy doesn't mind you logging 5 hours (not necessarily in the left seat, but hands on) then that part is solved.

Next, to log "dual-given" time legally you need to notate this in the "student's" logbook and sign it. Again, if the guy doesn't mind this then yes, you can log it perfectly legally. You don't need to be giving training for a rating....just training. Heck, point out a cumulus cloud and call it an inflight weather lesson! ;-)

The big no-no is if the flight is operated under 135. In that case you could only do it on pt. 91 legs. Dual-instruction on a part 135 flight has gotten a few people into trouble....just don't risk it.

What most people do (and in no way do I condone this, nor have done so myself) but both pilots just log PIC. The only way you'd get busted is if the Feds looked at both your logbooks together. The biggest negative aspect though is during the airline interview you'll probably slip up, say there was another pilot on board and they'll attack you like a pack of wolves - Game Over.

Hope this helps.

~Fly~

 

[OState597]

Thank You IFLYGC

Thank you IFLYGC,

This was my post by the way, and yes your reply was very helpful. I should have mentioned in my original question that I have not begun this 421 adventure yet, so please don't think you're helping an "illegal pilot."

 

[kj6991]

this guy always has something to post about "stretching time" or something like that. he seems a little shaky about things. good luck with your intentions. it's nice to have that option with your low time.

 

[IFlyGC]

Just for clarification, which guy are you referring to as "this guy"?

 

[nosehair]

The 5 hours PIC make/model is only required when giving "training required for a certificate or rating." 61.195(f)

 

[rubberducky]

What most people do (and in no way do I condone this, nor have done so myself) but both pilots just log PIC. The only way you'd get busted is if the Feds looked at both your logbooks together. The biggest negative aspect though is during the airline interview you'll probably slip up, say there was another pilot on board and they'll attack you like a pack of wolves - Game Over.

Hope this helps.

~Fly~

I agree also as mentioned the Part 135 aspect of this scenario. You currently don't meet the mins for this to act as PIC. When I interviewed with my current employer, one applicant was sent home for exactly this reason...

 

[kj6991]

FLY,

I was referring to Ostate. i know him personally and was just giving him a hard time.

 

[IFlyGC]

lol....OK. You can see why I asked for clarification I hope!

Fly Safe!

~Fly~