Legal checklists???

[Bernoulli]

I was flying with my friend who is a CFII the other day in a C-172 and he asked me where I got my checklist. I told him I made it myself and that it covers everything from Cessna's crappy checklist and things that I have found are necessary for safe flight. He advised me to use only Cessna Checklists, or published checklists with disclaimers, and that mine was not legal... the check airman on my next check-ride would probably bust me for using mine. I have never heard of this before, nor have I read anything of the sort in the FARS. I have taken my previous two checkrides using my own checklists. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[banned username 2]

You can use your own checklist as long as it covers EVERYTHING from the Flight Manual Checklist. In otherwords, you can add all the extra items you want, but you can NOT remove anything that is in the manufactures checklists.

I have written checklists for the Falcon 50EX and Falcon 900EX. We have used them for 5 years now, Flight Safety even has current copies on file so we can use them during our training. They are very different than the manufacture checklist, however they include 100% of the items from the manufactures checklists.

Hope this helps.

 

[Timebuilder]

Same deal at my old company.

We covered the required items, and a typed checklist was easier to use than balancing the Lear book on my lap.

We never had a problem with any offical over the use of our checklists.

 

[PropTrash]

Yeah, you can use whatever you want as a checklist. However, if you ever bend metal and your checklist has something omitted from or contrary to the POH your butt will be in sling. Just double check that you are following manufacturer recommended procedures and you should be fine.

 

[Loafman]

Heck, we aren't even allowed to scribble weights, frequencies or ANYTHING extra on our published checklists. We're told the FAA will spank us.

 

[stillaboo]

I don't believe part 91 flying even requires the use of ANY checklist (other than 91.503b, which is only applicable to large and turbine powered multiengine airplanes), so use whatever you want.

But if you bend metal b/c you weren't operating the aircraft the way Cessna recomended (FAR 91.13 careless or reckless operation) b/c you didn't feel the step was worthy of your checklist, don't tell the FAA you were flying on your own checklist that skips steps that they felt were needed (they approved the Cessna checklist).

It is very disappointing a CFII doesn't know the regs. If he doubted the legality of it, he should have said he thought it wasn't legal, but had to check on it first. To just tell you that you'd bust a ride, that's wrong. Does he make up regs as he goes when teaching his students too?

-Boo!

 

[Kingairrick]

A quick correction:

Our POI says that the FAA will not "approve" a checklist. If they were to do so, then they would be liable for any ommisions. It makes sense.

Our POI stamps the word "accepted" on the checklists we write ourselves, he says that it should be a get out of jail free card if we are ever questioned about it.

It goes without saying that everything is covered, we just move stuff around. For example; there are 16 items on the line up checklist for the King Air. Our checklist moves all but 5 to the before takeoff checklist, so we save time in position.

Just my .02

 

[bobbysamd]

Checklists

I worked at three well-known Part 141 schools. Each had their own checklists for their airplanes. No one said a thing about the checklists.

You can use your own checklist, but, as the others said, do not omit anything on yours from the POH's checklist.

 

[FSB99]

141 is different, in regards to checklists, and anything published.. when you're in a 141 program, it's much like 121, in that if it's a checklist used for the airplane, it has to be 'approved' or accepted by the faa, since any change in the checklist can be considered a change in curriculum, and any change in curriculum has to be approved through the faa.
i was also adominished lightly on my cfi checkride. i had typed up my own checklist, as others above had stated, adding a few things here and there. the whole ride went good, until the inspector noticed me sliding my 'unofficial-looking' checklist back in my flight bag. he asked to look at it, asked if it was from the poh, or manufacturer, etc.. when i told him no, i typed it up myself and added some things i regularly forget that aren't listed on the poh's checklist, a look of disappointment covered his face.. he still passed me, but explained that, in his opinion, the only way my personal checklist should be used is in conjunction with the poh.. what he was getting at was, i should have had the poh out, or at least the provided checklist, use that one, and then i could use my personal checklist.. yes, he was saying to run two checklists, even though mine had all the manufacturer's items included...
he may have been wrong, but his badge said FAA, so i listened to him. later, as an instructor at a part 61 school, when we retyped any checklists for our airplanes, i always made a trip to the fsdo, to see this particular inspector personally, to have him 'approve' them.. and he did so.. read over them, cross referenced them to the poh or afm's i brought with, and he put a little red stamp on the back of each checklist.

 

[stillaboo]

the whole ride went good, until the inspector noticed me sliding my 'unofficial-looking' checklist back in my flight bag . . . a look of disappointment covered his face.. he still passed me, but explained that, in his opinion, the only way my personal checklist should be used is in conjunction with the poh..

But you passed, and he gave you his opinion from years of flying, not anything based in the FARS. That is the key. What the fsdo was doing (was this the same guy?) was even sillier, but if it gave you confidence in your checklist, then so be it.

I don't know about 121 flying, but part 91 flying only mentions the names of the checklists to be used (for turbine multi ops only, 91.503b), so you could ferry a 74 with a napkin that says the names of all the checklists and not violate that FAR (But you'd get a careless or reckless citation, probably).

As far as the FAA is concerned, as long as your checklist usage isn't "careless or reckless", you can use whatever checklist you want for part 91 for sure, and likely part 141, 135, and 121 as well.

-Boo!

 

[midlifeflyer]

As far as the FAA is concerned, as long as your checklist usage isn't "careless or reckless", you can use whatever checklist you want for part 91 for sure, and likely part 141, 135, and 121 as well.

I'm not all that familiar with Part 141, but I know that some of them can have very strict structures. If, for some reason their curriculum requires the use of a specific checklist, it would have to be the one that's used.

On the main issue, if someone used a Cessna 172 POH chacklist religiously at my airport during a checkride, especialy in the summer, they'd probably fail when the engine quit during their taxi to the runway.

 

[cvsfly]

We operate a BE-200 with EFIS and have always wondered about the legality of using the pilot programed EFIS checklist. We operate Part 135 and have developed our own checklists to use in the aircraft and training (simulators with no programed checklist on the EFIS). Our intention is to get FSDO approval to use these that mirror our EFIS checklist. I took all the items in the Beech manual (with some rearranging) and left out those that don't apply to our equipment and some from FSI and incorporated some of our own items. Got the Normals and Abnormals on tri-fold doublesided 8 X 11 sheets and Emergency on bi-fold doublesided sheet. We just submitted them so will let you know. Of course Beech just came out with a revision to the checklists the day I sent everything off.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

check lists?!!?!?!, we dont need any stinking check lists.

KICK THE TIRES AND LIGHT THE FIRES!!!!!

just kidding of course.

 

[Rick1128]

checklists

It has been awhile since I have dealt with Part 141, but I don't remember any requirements to use a particular checklist. However, over the years I have run into many Inspectors and examiners that have their very own special opinions on that matter. It has been my experience that many of them are not very familiar with their own guidance from the FAA HQ. Refer to Order 8400.10 and Order 8700.10.

Part 135 and 121 checklists have to be 'Accepted' by the company's POI. Things can be removed. There are certain hot button items that will raise eyebrows if removed. But as we all know a majority of checklists are rewritten by the manufacturers' legal departments. We have all seen checklists where some items are listed three and four times. Many times due to a court case. In the past, I have had no problem removing the duplicate items. It makes for a much shorter checklist. In the past have worked for companies that do not have a preflight checklist, they used a flow pattern in the Company Aircraft Flight Manual. All FAA Accepted.

For Part 135 or 121, you have to use the company checklists. The FAA insists on that. After all everything has to be standardized. Even if the FAA is not.