Leaving the industry

[sluggo]

I Wish..

I wish I had the confidence to pull that off. For the last several years I've been trying to figure it out. I've started 4 small businesses that didn't work, cuz I'm gone half the month. I come from a family of entreprenuers, my father told me not to go into aviation...what did I do? Pilot. Here I am in a lonely hotel room thinking about my last 3 relationships that failed cuz I was always gone. Great, I get to hang out with 5 strangers who mean nothing to me and pretend to be their best friend...It's a great job though, right? When you finally get that dream interview...you spend tons of cash to get ready... just to get turned down...Why, cuz your a great guy and you didn't kiss enough ass. So, go back to your hole and kiss ass for a year and re apply...I'm a fool. Here I am 41 making $60 a year? WTFOver. My bro makes 4 times that telling chumps like me what to do. WTF am I doing wrong!

 

[satpak77]

Pronoun Patrol

as pilots we tend to think in this manner

I like the variety in schedule.

I would not like 9-5.

I would not want to do anything else.

I tried another career and it was not suited for me.

9-5 is not for me.

However, as Type A personalities as we are, always looking out for OURselves, how many of us have stopped to consider what the spouse and kid(s)/baby thinks about our job?

Serious question. Am I the only one who HATES being on the road and misses his family?

At some point, something suffers. The family may suffer in that climb to the 777 cockpit, or the career may suffer to keep that family happy. Maybe no 777 for you.

This post is related to the post awhile back of "airline pilots and divorces"

DISCUSSION WANTED

 

[sluggo]

Thanks for the tip...

Looking out for ourselves = Looking out for our family
This is an I industry. It's like being a swimmer or a windsurfer or any single event. It is all about I and me, although, I and me represent more...

 

[fareview]

Gents,

This is still the best gig in town, hands down. Rather then leave do as your peers are doing (in great numbers) - developing interests on the side.

Enjoy the cubicle - never again.

respectfully

fareview

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

psysicx makes a good point on the lawyer issue. It is a very difficult road. Most of the attorneys I know make good money, some make really good money. As in hundreds of thousands. However all of them went thru 5-10 years after law school where they had to work part-time jobs to make ends meet and/or live with their parents for a time. They've all told me when I considered law school that if you're not in the top 10%-20% of your class you can forget about a big time gig out of school. Even if you do get that coveted job, you'll work lots of hours with no duty day limits. 75+ hours a week isn't uncommon. All of the people I know were high school valedictorians or salutorians, 3.7 GPA's in undergrad or higher but only pulled around 3.0 in law school. On the upside, they all work for themselves now. A lot to be said for that.

I do think a law degree would be good experience even for someone that doesn't do legal work for a living.

Mr. I.

 

[Black Hawk]

Serious question. Am I the only one who HATES being on the road and misses his family?

You're not alone. When I was 20 something it was fun but at 35 with two young children I couldn't take it anymore. Been away from airlines for 10 years and miss the flying and some of the people but not the job one bit. Unfortunately, the nature of most pilot jobs isn't really conducive to raising children. Teaching and flying for fun with friends works better for us as a family. Maybe I'll get back into it when the kids are older and on their own.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

as pilots we tend to think in this manner

I like the variety in schedule.

I would not like 9-5.

I would not want to do anything else.

I tried another career and it was not suited for me.

9-5 is not for me.

However, as Type A personalities as we are, always looking out for OURselves, how many of us have stopped to consider what the spouse and kid(s)/baby thinks about our job?

Serious question. Am I the only one who HATES being on the road and misses his family?

At some point, something suffers. The family may suffer in that climb to the 777 cockpit, or the career may suffer to keep that family happy. Maybe no 777 for you.

This post is related to the post awhile back of "airline pilots and divorces"

DISCUSSION WANTED

Hang in there satpak... your turn will come. One day you'll be on a tropical layover (resting up!), sunning your well-worn big as$ on some bikini-clad stretch of sandy nirvana sucking down a foofy rum-based beverage with a little umbrella and giant back-scratcher ... you'll lift a cheek and proudly announce your arrival to the near-naked, silicon-stuffed hottie next to you, "YEAH BABY, THERE"S MORE WHERE THAT CAME FROM!"

BBB

 

[Jolly Roger]

The road to any great worthwile job is long and difficult, otherwise everyone would be doing it. Unfortunately, most of us have gotten far down this road in aviation before we realise the payback may not be what we expected. I don't think any job would be perfect, but to me this is hard to beat.

I think back to all the jobs I have had in the past, and compare it to my present. I get a kick out of all the references to "Office Space" but they are so true.

One of the things I really like about this business is the variety of people we work with. There is nothing worse than having to deal with someone you don't get along with over the long haul. In aviation, you may be paired with a tool at times (maybe you are the tool!) but the next guy will be great.

Getting a great paycheck for a part time job is unbelievable. I can say for sure that this lifestyle is 100% better than my previous life in the Navy.. hands down!

As far as family life, the seperation is difficult, but doesn't hold a candle to being away on a floating prison for months on end. Wives that can't withstand a major airline schedule aren't worth the long haul anyway.

Anyway, that's my worthless tidbit of the evening. I have been lucky enough to end up at SWA, and might certainly have a different outlook under different circumstances. I do realize that it could all come tumbling down tomorrow, but at least for today I am grateful and wouldn't change it for anything.

 

[satpak77]

Hang in there satpak... your turn will come. One day you'll be on a tropical layover (resting up!), sunning your well-worn big as$ on some bikini-clad stretch of sandy nirvana sucking down a foofy rum-based beverage with a little umbrella and giant back-scratcher ... you'll lift a cheek and proudly announce your arrival to the near-naked, silicon-stuffed hottie next to you, "YEAH BABY, THERE"S MORE WHERE THAT CAME FROM!"

BBB

dude you are nuts

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

This thread comes up every month. Dad's been a lawyer for 30 yrs in private practice. Has his own airplane, lake house, mtn house, etc. Said he wish he would have been a pilot. Talked w/ him the other day about this very subject and he said it gets old making money off other peoples misery. Love is grand divorce is 10 grand.

 

[brainhurts]

Last post. Good luck boys and girls. Just up visiting a friend on my way to Seattle. The house in Dallas is on the market. I'll miss the 737, but not the 12 hour/7.5 hour days. Can't wait to get back to being around intelligent women. No more dumb as a rock flight attendants. Back to Software eng./mgr. Thank goodness they took my dumba$$ back. Just bought a 37 foot sailboat to live on till I find a house. Just to give you all something to do I won't' even spell check this thing. "In case I don't see ya... good afternoon, good evening, and good night."

You'll be back. This job is like crack. Its hard to beat. You'll start out thinking you are happy being home every night and working normal hours--and then you will start to remember those steamy 9 hour overnights in toledo having your pick of the women working the midnight shift at the gas station you were forced to get a burreto at. It all comes roaring back--and the next thing you know, you are dusting off your resume and begging a Frank Lorenzo clone to take you back. Good Luck. I hope you are strong enough to hold out.

 

[Networ-King]

as pilots we tend to think in this manner

I like the variety in schedule.

I would not like 9-5.

I would not want to do anything else.

I tried another career and it was not suited for me.

9-5 is not for me.

However, as Type A personalities as we are, always looking out for OURselves, how many of us have stopped to consider what the spouse and kid(s)/baby thinks about our job?

Serious question. Am I the only one who HATES being on the road and misses his family?

At some point, something suffers. The family may suffer in that climb to the 777 cockpit, or the career may suffer to keep that family happy. Maybe no 777 for you.

This post is related to the post awhile back of "airline pilots and divorces"

DISCUSSION WANTED

Sat...

There is also the other end of the spectrum when this topic comes up. I remember after my first furlough I managed to get a job, but I was gone ALOT and barely saw my house for a year. For the last year and a half that I've been at big brown I think I've flown 150 hours and I've been home ALOT and ready to kill my wife at times . Catch 22 I guess..... dunno. I prefer the latter ofcourse, but we (as Pilots) are alway b i t c h i n about something cause thats our number one job. To B I T C H!!!!!!!!!! And thats why a lot of pilots can't be happy doing this gig or the cubicle gig. To a lot of people out there 60K+ a year is pretty good money.

 

[m80drvr]

I've met your wife king, I've almost bumped her off for you. Just kidding, tell her I said HI. I may get down to hickvill after all.

 

[1st Overnite]

If anyone is thinking of trying another career, try becoming a therapist. Basically you just have to listen to other people complain. If you get asked about experience when applying for a job, you could tell them about the times you were locked up in a tiny cockpit with the guy who complained about his job, wife, kids, pay, boss, girlfriend, etc.

 

[FN FAL]

If anyone is thinking of trying another career, try becoming a therapist. Basically you just have to listen to other people complain. If you get asked about experience when applying for a job, you could tell them about the times you were locked up in a tiny cockpit with the guy who complained about his job, wife, kids, pay, boss, girlfriend, etc.

Therapist in our town just got 7-15, but I think they are going to let him have home incarceration on a gps monitoring bracelet instead. Not a bad QOL, if you can get your foot in the door.

 

[Swaayze]

Yep, it can take a loooonngg time to acheive greatness in this biz. After 14 years in the airline industry I'm a junior reserve FO at a regional (yet again) with little movement up the list. I chose this job specifically to try to keep flying but mostly to avoid a commute and spend time with my family - knowing full well that the compensation would be minimal but hoping for some progression of QOL. However, with the poor staffing and lack of growth (at least another year of reserve after 1.5 here already!) it just isn't working too well for me. I constantly end up on 4,5 and 6 day trips. That sucks since I'm a happily married father of twin (almost) 6 yo girls and I want to be with them more. This is definitely a job fit for early 20 somethings who are single and don't mind the grind of being away so much, and who can share an apartment with someone to keep expenses low.

I just want a flying job that pays well, is stable, and has me home most nights (and here's the hard part, has to be in the DFW area)....is that too much to ask? Non-flying gigs that meet these criteria are sounding more and more appealing these days.

 

[pkober]

Good luck to all who left.

But, if you hated this job so much why do you keep coming back to the airline thread? Just a question, not trying to fuel a future fire.

CLAMBAKE

 

[MalteseX]

I haven't decided to get out of the business but making plans to. Taking the LSAT in June and I'll see what happens as far what school I get in to. If the wife and I think we can make it happen, I'm bailing. It's a love/hate relationship this airline career. I figure if it's this bad now, what is it going to be like in 10-20 years from now? Plus, I doubt I'd be able to fully retire at 60 anyways since the pensions will all be gone so I might as well find a career that will allow me to work until 70 or so. Doesn't really scare me to go back to school since I made so little as an airline pilot, if I can make ends meet doing that, I can do it in grad school. Why make nothing flying for a major for the first few years when I can make nothing for 2-3 years and get a degree out of it and then actually get a job that makes good money, has benefits and a retirement? Maybe I'll get cold feet and stick with this career but I'll decide something in the next year and a half.

Good luck if you choose to go that route. My baby sister went to law school (a state school, basic program--finished about the middle of her class, and she was never a "brain".). The tuition was affordable, etc. Anyway, a mere 3 years after school, she started in a small/medium sized town in FL handling elder law, trusts and estates. She's making well over $300K, and is very junior in the firm -- has paid off her student loans and the rest of her debts. And she is home every night. If you stick with it, you should have to worry about $$$$$.

Good luck

 

[alaskaplt]

Good luck if you choose to go that route. My baby sister went to law school (a state school, basic program--finished about the middle of her class, and she was never a "brain".). The tuition was affordable, etc. Anyway, a mere 3 years after school, she started in a small/medium sized town in FL handling elder law, trusts and estates. She's making well over $300K, and is very junior in the firm -- has paid off her student loans and the rest of her debts. And she is home every night. If you stick with it, you should have to worry about $$$$$.

Good luck

Not quite the norm though. But never the less she clearly has more control over what she can earn than what we do. Definitely pros and cons though.

 

[MalteseX]

ATRedneck: you got that right. I heard the other day on the radio that there is one lawyer for every five people in our country. Is that like 60 million lawyers? Could that be right? Good luck with that.

Incorrect. Actual number is more like 1 in 315 people.

The number of lawyers in the United States has increased steadily over the past half century and is currently estimated at more than 950,000

Source: US. Dept. of State (2005)

 

[MalteseX]

Not quite the norm though. But never the less she clearly has more control over what she can earn than what we do. Definitely pros and cons though.

I agree........
Just an example.
Lots of work in elder law in Fla -- so she's lucky there.

Just trying to show that it's possible to do well $$$-wise outside of aviation. While being a pilot can be financially secure for some, it takes many years to get to a comfortable level; and there are very very few options to make the comfortable living come sooner.

That being said, I personally would never be a lawyer...... the cons outweigh the pros for me.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Average starting salary for law school graduate in GA going into private practice was around 79K per year acoording to Fulton County Daily Report. www.dailyreportonline.com

I dont know where you guys are getting these numbers from about having to live w/ parents, all i can say is your wrong. My brother just graduated Mercer Law school in Macon, GA and got a 65K per yr starting salary with a 5% raise after one yr. No he didn't get the average but a little like this business he took the first job he was offered. He could have always went to work for my father but he wants to carve his own path, and I say more power to him.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Can we get this thread podcast to all ERAU students? PLEASE!! Drying up the pilot overpopulation is the first step to reclaiming some of the bargaining power in this profession.

 

[Black Hawk]

Good luck to all who left.

But, if you hated this job so much why do you keep coming back to the airline thread? Just a question, not trying to fuel a future fire.

CLAMBAKE

It's a fair question. I liked actually doing the job just fine. If I were single and childless I'd still be out there doing it. But I'm not and I like it that way. The short story is that most professional flying jobs that I could get simply don't fit my situation. I'm needed at home right now. To keep somewhat in the game I fly once or twice a month with friends and am building a better than average home simulator. I follow the careers of some of my former students and friends out of personal interest and also with the intent of getting back into it when the kids are older and more on their own. Checking in here is part of keeping in touch with the what's happening in the industry.

 

[g-code]

Can we get this thread podcast to all ERAU students? PLEASE!! Drying up the pilot overpopulation is the first step to reclaiming some of the bargaining power in this profession.

So its fair for you to get into the industry but not me?

Thats a REAL solution. uke:

What ALPA needs to do is hit these guys on college campuses. They have NO clue about collective bargaining, work schedule, or problems such as G0jets.

 

[CaptainMark]

Can we get this thread podcast to all ERAU students? PLEASE!! Drying up the pilot overpopulation is the first step to reclaiming some of the bargaining power in this profession.

are u nuts...that would be the end to entertaining videos like this one...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...64016731046366

 

[Bringupthebird]

So its fair for you to get into the industry but not me?

Thats a REAL solution.

uke:

I said podcast to ERAU, not the local kindergarten. What a childish response!

What ALPA needs to do is hit these guys on college campuses. They have NO clue about collective bargaining, work schedule, or problems such as G0jets.

What is ALPA going to tell them? Go to work at Freedom and you'll ruin your career (until the dues checkoff forms are all turned in)? Scab at an airline like CAL and you'll end up on the cover of Air Line Pilot after bygones are bygones? Play right into the hands of management by alienating yourself from the rest of the organized labor groups and let Steenland mow each group down individually, a la NWA? No, ALPA probably ought to win a few home games before they start any college recruitment.

If you've been following this thread, there are many pilots who have chosen to leave the profession for a variety of reasons. Getting this info to pilots before they sink too much money into a dead-end career would be valuable to them. Heading them off before they do something stupid like accept an airline pilot job that pays so little they need at least one part-time job to live on benefits the profession.

It used to be that 95% of the pilots competed for 5% of the flying jobs. Now 50% of the flying jobs are as lousy as the other 50% of the flying jobs.

 

[crxpilot]

Thanks alot, thats 13 minutes and 16 seconds of my life I'll never get back!

are u nuts...that would be the end to entertaining videos like this one...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...64016731046366

 

[aviatrix767]

Thanks alot, thats 13 minutes and 16 seconds of my life I'll never get back!

OMG....you actually watched the WHOLE thing???? :laugh: I didn't make it past the first 60 seconds.... LOL

 

[Hpilot]

Wish I could

Last post. Good luck boys and girls. Just up visiting a friend on my way to Seattle. The house in Dallas is on the market. I'll miss the 737, but not the 12 hour/7.5 hour days. Can't wait to get back to being around intelligent women. No more dumb as a rock flight attendants. Back to Software eng./mgr. Thank goodness they took my dumba$$ back. Just bought a 37 foot sailboat to live on till I find a house. Just to give you all something to do I won't' even spell check this thing. "In case I don't see ya... good afternoon, good evening, and good night."

I'm green with envy. Currently in the process of following two different paths to get the he!! out. Realistically I'm planning a few years before departure. Best of luck.