Leaseback for charter??

[Leargear]

Greetings all. New to the site, so far so good. The big boss is buying a king air for personal use and wants to leaseback with a "large and popular 135 cert. holder out of Van Nuys" Since I am new to the whole A/C manager scene, wonder if anybody could shed any light on the ins and outs of these arrangements with the new operational control issues, especially in regards to the payment flows that are now being tracked. At the end of the day, who will I actually be working for and who will control my destiny? The owner, who employs me now, or the 135 cer. holder, who I will have to become a employee of? thanks and good luck........

 

[FlaZoomie]

With the recent "revised" OPSPEC for 135 (think it was #08), you'll need to work for the 135 operator so that the 135 has "control" of not only the aircraft but YOU also.

Your owner then is basically just "Avis/Hertz lease-a-plane" to the 135 operator. Your owner will then "ask" for trip thru them, which "provide" you as a service.

Simple think of it as your owner as just another charter customer to his own airplane.

Else, the owner will have "some" control if you work for them and that will be a red flag with the FAA, for not only you (as PIC) but the owner and 135 certificate owner.

Read up on the CL60x crash in TEB last year for some good explanation, espically with respect to "sharing" or "renting" a certificate (big no-no).

 

[FlaZoomie]

---duplicate post ---

 

[hawkerjet]

Run away from most operators at VNY. I would recommend Elite Air,Inc out of St Pete, FLA. They will give you the flexibility to run your flight department. The aircraft next to mine at VNY is doing so. They have a Hawker, pay 5000/month, and 5% on charter revenue and can keep your aircraft busy for you. They also are doing this while in line with all the new operational control issues.

 

[H.Agenda]

Greetings all. New to the site, so far so good. The big boss is buying a king air for personal use and wants to leaseback with a "large and popular 135 cert. holder out of Van Nuys" Since I am new to the whole A/C manager scene, wonder if anybody could shed any light on the ins and outs of these arrangements with the new operational control issues, especially in regards to the payment flows that are now being tracked. At the end of the day, who will I actually be working for and who will control my destiny? The owner, who employs me now, or the 135 cer. holder, who I will have to become a employee of? thanks and good luck........

The control issue is a slippery slope. I would be very careful. Be sure you have a good relationship with your boss. 135 organizations make money, on charters, maintinence, management fees, over priced hangar rent...and whatever miscellaneous b.s. they can think of. You can negotiate much of the terms on how your plane is operated or maintained.

Here is a link to an earlier post about this.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=92520

 

[Leargear]

The control issue is a slippery slope. I would be very careful. Be sure you have a good relationship with your boss. 135 organizations make money, on charters, maintinence, management fees, over priced hangar rent...and whatever miscellaneous b.s. they can think of. You can negotiate much of the terms on how your plane is operated or maintained.

Here is a link to an earlier post about this.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=92520

Thanks all, looks like I am on the right track so far with lots of research, accurate budget and a very sharp aviation attorney. With opspecA008 in place, do you find a lot owners are not getting involved with this type of agreement anymore and has anyone out there been burned by this"large very well know operator out of VNY." I have done searches, came up dry, but had a few friends that worked there and ran away from cushy jet jobs to fly in my old arena of night freight. Me thinks me best be cautious......

 

[Seadogrun]

Simple think of it as your owner as just another charter customer to his own airplane.

Else, the owner will have "some" control if you work for them and that will be a red flag with the FAA, for not only you (as PIC) but the owner and 135 certificate owner.

Read up on the CL60x crash in TEB last year for some good explanation, espically with respect to "sharing" or "renting" a certificate (big no-no).

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Next time anyone has some time this is great(however long) reading with valuable lessons. One of the big lessons is that just because the POI says it's OK doesn't make it OK.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAR0604.pdf

This brought the end of "piggy-backing" on someone elses cert.

 

[Leargear]

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Next time anyone has some time this is great(however long) reading with valuable lessons. One of the big lessons is that just because the POI says it's OK doesn't make it OK.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAR0604.pdf

This brought the end of "piggy-backing" on someone elses cert.

Exactly my thoughts! I have read just about everything out there including the Challenger crash in TEB, and I guess now the aviation attorney takes over. I was just interested in maybe meeting someone who already has gone through this, and found out that it is the raw deal I suspect it is. I just need ammo to convince the boss that this is serious S@#$% and he should SERIOUSLY consider not doing this. thanks again for that publication link.