Learjet destroyed during engine runs?

[LJ45]

Even Airbus, one of the worlds largest manufacturers, can screw up engine runs

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Etihad-Airways/Airbus-A340-642/1293784/L/

 

[Fly91]

There is nothing wrong with mechanics conducting engine runs and taxiing airplanes.

You are assuming a pilot would have never let something like this happen, that is a poor assumption. A mistake was made. We don't know what mistake or how; however, let us hope a lesson was learned by all the people involved.

If we restrict the operation of aircraft to the infallible no one will be allowed inside the airport fence.

No, I'm just saying the company paid, trained and current pilots should take a drive to the airport and run up the engines on their bosses multi-million $$$ plane.

This is one of those things that will require people to die before they make it a law. Do you realize the poop-storm that will be started if a mechanic causes a fatal accident while taxiing a plane? It will be the beginning of all new laws being enacted. The public would not stand for it, its just that 99.99% of the public are ignorant that this type of thing is even taking place.


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[Fly91]

Even Airbus, one of the worlds largest manufacturers, can screw up engine runs

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Etihad-Airways/Airbus-A340-642/1293784/L/

I thought there was some funny business involved in that case. I don't remember exactly, but weren't the pilots not trained on that plane and they were sitting up there during testing?

I mean, how on earth can TWO trained pilots, if they were totally sober, not be able to stop a plane they are trained to fly? Its just really not possible without something else being a serious factor. And that Airbus took a pretty long ride before impact.

Can TWO pilots really get that flustered where literally everything they've learned goes right out of their heads and they are rendered 100% useless?

Strange..............


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[svcta]

No, I'm just saying the company paid, trained and current pilots should take a drive to the airport and run up the engines on their bosses multi-million $$$ plane.

This is one of those things that will require people to die before they make it a law. Do you realize the poop-storm that will be started if a mechanic causes a fatal accident while taxiing a plane? It will be the beginning of all new laws being enacted. The public would not stand for it, its just that 99.99% of the public are ignorant that this type of thing is even taking place.


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So a mistake is made and the answer is more laws? C'mon, MOST mechanics are as competent to run and taxi airplanes as MOST pilots are to fly them. There are examples where accidents have happened with both, obviously, but it is not indicative of a systemic problem that requires even more regulation. By your line of reasoning, only pilots should tow airplanes, too. Or service the lavs, or wash airplanes, etc. etc. Afterall, no-one knows better than the pilots what all the little protuberneces are, tow limits, wingspan, how much bllue(green) juice will overflow the lav, blah blah blah. The line has to get drawn somewhere. Hire competent mechanics.

 

[Cat3C]

Isn't this why techs do the engine run and taxi school at FSI or CAE? I have not been part of a discussion regarding this topic but the techs in my flight department are qualified and capable to do this stuff. Additionally if needed a pilot will be with them but there are no hard and fast rules.

Not that it matters but how do the airlines treat this?

 

[SWA tech]

I was a taxi/run-up designee at SWA for 4 years and they would make us go to the sim once a year for a check out and everything they could throw at us. Myself I would take a mechanic to the sim before I would check him or her out and see where they stood and if it was something he should be doing. I have done a lot of high power runs on dc-10 and b-757,767 and 737-700 and the overall thing I think with mechanics is if they are trained to be professional they will be if not they should not do it bottom line.

 

[fisherpilot]

I was a taxi/run-up designee at SWA for 4 years and they would make us go to the sim once a year for a check out and everything they could throw at us. Myself I would take a mechanic to the sim before I would check him or her out and see where they stood and if it was something he should be doing. I have done a lot of high power runs on dc-10 and b-757,767 and 737-700 and the overall thing I think with mechanics is if they are trained to be professional they will be if not they should not do it bottom line.

That sounds like a great idea

 

[Fly91]

So a mistake is made and the answer is more laws? C'mon, MOST mechanics are as competent to run and taxi airplanes as MOST pilots are to fly them.

"MOST" are competent????? Thats just great, what about the incompetent ones????? Well, hopefully you get the incompetent ones, I don't want them. How do you know which mechanic is NOT competent? YUP...after he bends the airframe in a ditch like this Learjet did.

How do you know which mechanic is going to act quickly and appropriately when the brakes fail during an engine run-up? Do your mechanics get any training on how to stop a plane, emergency brake system, SOV's, reversers, etc...? Hell no..... Yeah, they know what they are and where they are...but they aren't like pilots in the proficiency department.

By your line of reasoning, only pilots should tow airplanes, too. Or service the lavs, or wash airplanes, etc. etc.

I can't tell you how stupid of a statement that is. Those are line personnel jobs that take place when an aircraft is "OFF", parked or totally powered down. Don't even need battery power for most of those ops. An aircraft can't go flying across an airfield out of control from line personnel and get totalled, or kill someone.

Afterall, no-one knows better than the pilots what all the little protuberneces are, tow limits, wingspan, how much bllue(green) juice will overflow the lav, blah blah blah.

Again, jobs for line service. They get training on all that stuff.

The line has to get drawn somewhere. Hire competent mechanics.

For the most part, yes, mechanics will do just fine with engine runs. Its the time when a plane gets destroyed where this becomes the topic of discussion. If its not your plane, who cares, right.

A smart company owner would have his pilots taking care of engine runs. If not for total safety...liability. If I was an insurance company, I wouldn't cover non-pilots taxiing a plane around and doing engine runs.

Or, like "SWA tech" said......give the mechanics specific recurrent training on everything they would need to know to avoid a catastrophy. Nobody with half a brain can argue that.

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[LJ45]

what about incompetent pilots? our group tears up airplanes also. :smash:

 

[svcta]

what about incompetent pilots? our group tears up airplanes also. :smash:

this was my main point. Fly91, first of all, you can use all the question marks you like. They're free so why stop at five? Don't kid yourself, about line service guys. Most really don't have nearly the "training" that you think they do. What happens when an airplane leaves the towbar? This happens far more regularly than airplanes shooting off in to ditches under their own power (and without the batteries even on). How are we supposed to handle this crisis? Emergency stimulus package for Line Service Training? Pilots supervising all movements of all aircraft anywhere anytime?

Reread the sentence that seemed to gripe you so badly (according the the question mark indications). Most piltos don't crash airplanes. Some do. Most mechanics don't foul up ground run ops. Some do. Airplanes break all the time in flight, adn I've even been known to call mechanics in flight to get their opinions. Sometimes their opinion helped steer my decision making process. Does that mean that an airplane should never run without a mechanic present?


I've seen airplanes with overflowed lavs because too much fluid was put in. By your line of reaoning there should be a pilot there supervising the lav service.

I've seen the tow limits of an aircraft exceeded, which led to a gear failure. By your line of reasoning there should be a pilot there supervising all towing.

I've seen airplanes crash. By your line of reasoning there should be a Fed there supervising all flight ops. Afterall, all humans can be counted on to make a mistake sooner or later. We ought to regulate them more, right?

My point is that just because you read about an incident on the internet does not mean that there is some out of control situation presenting itself to the world every day that (gasp!) requires regulation in order to keep us safe from mechanics on a (fender) bender.