Lear 60 FO or Beech 99 Captain?

[CornFlyer]

My goal is to get on with a fractional in 1 to 2 years...I have two opportunities as stepping stones and would like to know what you guys think. First one is as Lear 60 FO flying corporate 91...I would be typed and fly maybe 300-400 hours a year(not sure when upgrade would be and they could possibly sell the plane, so that is not good). Second option would be Ameriflight where I would fly a Beech 99 and build some turbine PIC.

I'm leaning towards the Lear job because of the type, but would like to know your thoughts...

 

[skiandsurf]

My goal is to get on with a fractional in 1 to 2 years...I have two opportunities as stepping stones and would like to know what you guys think. First one is as Lear 60 FO flying corporate 91...I would be typed and fly maybe 300-400 hours a year(not sure when upgrade would be and they could possibly sell the plane, so that is not good). Second option would be Ameriflight where I would fly a Beech 99 and build some turbine PIC.

I'm leaning towards the Lear job because of the type, but would like to know your thoughts...

I would take the Lear position. Get the type rating and try to pick up some extra flying somewhere.

 

[SteelerMan]

Obviously the lear would be more fun and the type is good, but a type without PIC time isn't that helpful. PIC time is key for any career advancement, that and "who you know" of course. I'd go for the PIC.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

You aren't getting hired straight into the left seat of a -99 with Ameriflight are you? You're gonna be Captain of the "Banana Slug," which is an old Cherokee 6. Or maybe a Navajo. Get the whole story.

 

[CornFlyer]

I just had a friend get on there with the same time and he only requested the 99 and got it...that is the only way I would go there. I'm ready to start building some turbine time!!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Okay my bad. I thought the -99 was one of their top airplanes. Just judging from your level of enthusiasm, it sounds like you really wanna go to AmFlight. Sounds like you've made up your own mind. Congrats. Welcome to burning kerosene!

 

[pilotyip]

Go for the PIC time, that is what will get you your next job. Plus you will learn a lot about flying.

 

[Guitar Guy]

If you are looking at NetJets, be aware that an ATP is required. So keep in mind that it's nice to get your ATP for free during a company checkride rather than having to pay out the cash on your own. I don't know if the Lear position you are looking at would give you an ATP along with the type rating. Just another item to consider.

 

[pilotyip]

Get your a ATP in a SEL fixed pitch prop and fixed gear. It will be the easiest check ride you ever take. Then when you get your first type rating it will be converted to a MEL ATP. Go for the PIC, any one can be a SIC it does not prove you are PIC material.

 

[gunfyter]

Are you insane?

Go for the Lear. BE-99 isnt even pressurized. That means flying 10K and below.

Fracs don't fly 10K and below much. SIC experience in the 60 is bettter than tooling around unpressurized below 10K as PIC on the 99.

RVSM, EGPWS, TCAS, High Altitude airspace structure, Type A, B departures and arrivals, Flight management system, GLASS cockpit. GPS.

 

[NJA bound]

NetJets requires a multiengine ATP ticket so the single ATP will not work pilotyip.

I'm not sure what NetJets would rather see as far as experience, I think the 99 PIC time would look better on a resume though, ask the FAA to sit in on a ride to get the ATP.

 

[beechjetpilot1]

I was pilot at Ameriflight and flew the -99. It was a great airplane to fly (coming up from cessnas). There is nothing like single pilot frieght flying to get up your skills and learn how to be a captain and make decisions (the quality that most companies are looking for). I had fun, learned alot, and built up 100hrs a month of pic turbine time. You have to do what is right for you, and many people look down on flying boxes, but I can tell you for a fact that that was some of the greatest fun I have ever had while flying. I have been at a fractional for 7 years now.....as well as many of the people I flew with at Ameriflight are now.

 

[Seat 0A]

There is nothing like single pilot frieght flying to get up your skills and learn how to be a captain and make decisions (the quality that most companies are looking for).

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if there were more of this going on instead of these "aviation college wonder pilots" joining the regionals with 300 hours of radio tuning time, maybe we wouldn't all be scared shirtless riding in the back during the negative-G descents and carrier landings.

Give me the former single-pilot 135 or night freight pilot any day over these guys.

Take the PIC position. The Fracs are looking to hire someone they feel can be a PIC.

 

[pilotyip]

Again go for the PIC, SIC time does nothing for your career. Friend of mine over 10,000 hours, almost all of it Turbo Jet time, most of it as a F/O at USAir on the DC-9 and 737. Has less than 500 hours PIC in 2002 when he becomes unemployed, he can not apply anyplace decent because they all have PIC minimums. You can learn RVSM; TCAS, etc but decision-making as a PIC comes from flying as a PIC.

 

[CornFlyer]

Thanks for all the replies...I do already have my ATP MEL and I have about 1200 hours flying boxes in a CE-310 for the past two years...so I definitely don't look down on flying freight. Just wondering if having a Lear type with minimal SIC time would be worth much in a year...if the plane was sold and I was out of a job.

 

[XTW]

Just wondering if having a Lear type with minimal SIC time would be worth much in a year...if the plane was sold and I was out of a job.

In your original post you stated that going fractional is your ultimate goal. With that in mind, I would choose the 99 and PIC time. Lots of good experience that will do you very well the rest of your career. Resist that temptation to jump for the shiny jet SIC.

To answer the question above, not much.

X

 

[NJA Capt]

I do already have my ATP MEL and I have about 1200 hours flying boxes in a CE-310 for the past two years...so I definitely don't look down on flying freight. Just wondering if having a Lear type with minimal SIC time would be worth much in a year...if the plane was sold and I was out of a job.

This info makes the decision a little easier. Go for the Lear SIC since you already have the single pilot PIC time. The Lear position will give you some quality (hopefully) CRM time. The PIC time is great, but NJA wants people that have experience working as a crew also.

 

[bailey3083]

If the Lear job is a Part 91 ops and you typed in the plane you get to log PIC anytime you are flying. So go for the Lear as in 12 months you can have a few hundred hours of Jet PIC which is better then Turbine PIC.
If you plan on applying to the Airlines they will not accept the PIC time as Part 121 says the PIC is the person who signs for the aircraft.

 

[gunfyter]

This info makes the decision a little easier. Go for the Lear SIC since you already have the single pilot PIC time. The Lear position will give you some quality (hopefully) CRM time. The PIC time is great, but NJA wants people that have experience working as a crew also.

Exactly. A no brainer.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Thanks for all the replies...I do already have my ATP MEL and I have about 1200 hours flying boxes in a CE-310 for the past two years...so I definitely don't look down on flying freight. Just wondering if having a Lear type with minimal SIC time would be worth much in a year...if the plane was sold and I was out of a job.

Seeing that you have the ATP, this is a no brainer....take the Lear job. You already have 310 PIC time...good enough. Really, would you rather fly 100 hrs a month, bust your a$$, get stuck in the ice and thunderstorms or fly 30 hrs a month, and be on top of it all plus relaxing on some beach in PBI or Carribbean for a few days worth? Plus a type! Go for the Lear job dude.....

I dont know anything about Ameriflights mx....but the night freight place that I was at was really marginal on mx and pretty pushy when it came down to it as I am sure that you are probably used to flying boxes in the 310 (or maybe not). If they sell the Lear, you will be pretty marketable with the Lear type....you will clearly be more marketable at NJA or any other fractional with some Lear/two man or chick experience.

 

[johnsonrod]

Lear 60. Get your type and get as many hours as possible - do some contract work to build hours as well. In the meanwhile, enjoy the 60 and learn as much as possible.

 

[wanttofly]

Still have a lot of friends that fly for Ameriflight, another thing to take into account is that after getting a little turbine time in the 99 you can probably upgrade into the Metro. If you do go to Ameriflight do watch your back.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

It's a tough choice. I forgot that the 99 was unpressurized - Victor Airways, mountain passes, Geez! How do they get a 99 into BIH? Or do they?

On the other hand, if you can upgrade to the Metro fairly quickly, then it may be worth it. Besides, that gives you both PT6 and Garrett time. (Outstanding marketability in the TProp job market, like King Airs). Did I hear 1000 hours/year? That's pretty good for TT in your logbook. Also keep in mind that you're kept 135 current on the AmFlight job.

Having been jobless recently (and briefly), it was fortunate that I was still 135 current. Look at how many jobs seek "current 135 letter." That regular drumbeat of 6 month checkrides says that you're trainable, and you're able to pass your checkrides. That to me is the mark of professionalism in this business.

Just my personal opinion, if I were hiring a guy for right seat in a jet (such as
fractionals or even majors), I'd have more respect for the guy who grunted out some box hauling in a turboprop over a guy eating caviar in the right seat of a Lear.

 

[NJA Capt]

Just my personal opinion, if I were hiring a guy for right seat in a jet, I'd have more respect for the guy who grunted out some box hauling in a turboprop over a guy eating caviar in the right seat of a Lear.

I understand the experienced you can gain flying freight. However, people need to cut their teeth with something besides boxes in the back. Quantity is fine, but quality is needed too. Customer and crew interaction is very valuable.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Hey Capt,

I hear ya on that, but I figure the guy has at least a "reasonable" personality. He's been congenial in his posts and isn't a know-it-all or else he wouldn't have asked in the first place. Anyone with a "reasonable" personality will do fine in the cockpit, and with the customer service issues in the frax. He'll probably do ok.

But you may be right. All depends on who's doing the hiring wherever he goes next. Just my op, bro.

Hope all's well at NJ. See ya on the road!

-- Ed

 

[CornFlyer]

I would have no problem eating caviar in the right seat, that would be cool with me. As for SJS...that is definitely not an issue!! I think flying a turboprop would be cool...but on the flipside it would be nice to see another side to aviation. Although the boxes have never bitched about my bad landings yet!!

 

[Guitar rocker]

I would have no problem eating caviar in the right seat, that would be cool with me. As for SJS...that is definitely not an issue!! I think flying a turboprop would be cool...but on the flipside it would be nice to see another side to aviation. Although the boxes have never bitched about my bad landings yet!!

We flew the good ole "airliner" as it is called at one commuter that I was at. The 99 is a nice plane and I am guessing that Ameriflight even has some of our old Bar Harbor Airlines 99's. Ours at the time had about 40K or more hrs on em (an that was in 1990)....I mean, the turmites were holding hands at the wing spar. If you can skip the turboprop and go straight to the jet, thats what I would do.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Take the type in the jet. You'll get paid more and you'll be happier. Trust me.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Take the type in the jet. You'll get paid more and you'll be happier. Trust me.

Go Cats! Was up in the Little Apple this weekend. Cat town is fun and all....anyway, your right...take the type!

 

[ksu_aviator]

Wish I knew, I'm down in Texas just shaking my head. How does a program like KSU end up hiring some kid that has never even been a peewee headcoach, much less an NCAA head coach.