Lear 35 Vs. RJ

[Steve]

Which is harder / more fun to fly?

 

[135fr8r]

The Lear by far. If you really wanna have some fun, fly a 24 series. Man, do I miss those days. Both are jets, and any jet experience is valuable, but the Lear undoubtedly will require more attention. After getting comfy with the airplane, your scan will be awesome.

 

[flyin4pennies]

LR-35 is much harder to fly, squirelly, stiff gear, steam gages, single nose wheel yada-yada, BUT a lot more fun to fly. Nimble, powerful!!

 

[LJDRVR]

How bout' that. A question I'm more than qualified to answer.

The answer is somewhat complicated. Speaking in terms of LR JET vs the Brazilian product, the answer is...well, it depends.

As far as basic stick and rudder skills, the Learjet requires you to pay a little bit more attention. All that excess thrust makes for some pretty rapid trim requirements, flying the Lear smoothly takes a bit of practice. (For instance, you might be an experienced jet pilot, fresh out of school, but in the right seat of the Lear, I'm probably not going to let you fly pax legs without a few empty ones under your belt.) The Lear's controls at lower airspeeds are MUCH lighter than the ERJ, requiring a smoother touch. (Not talking talent, just exposure and practice, If I can do it, anybody can.) Conversly though, being thrust deficient, an ERJ pilot has to really watch their P's & Q's in the event of an engine loss. The Embraer also requires much more thorough descent planning, without the Lear's ultra-draggy tip tanks. The Embraer is slicker than even most Boeings.

From an SA aspect, the Lear Pilot has to work a bit harder at it. His rate of climb is much higher, and he has to visualize his position without the aid of all the MFD/FMS goodies.

A word regarding automation. Everybody is so fond of saying how much automation reduces pilot workload. Not true. Automation simply moves that workload around, and opens up a whole new set of challenges. (Heads-down issues, mode confusion, etc.) Many folks told me how much easier the PFD display would be, how there was no scan. Not true. The PFD presentation is simply a different skill, and requires practice and dilligence to learn. For the record, I like the plain old 5" Collins FD-108 ADI. But I love the FMS too.

Systems-wise, there are some areas of the Lear that you can get yourself into trouble very easily with. (Fuel comes to mind.) The ERJ is relatively bulletproof.

Landings? Believe it or not, for all of its "hot ship" reputation, an average schmoe pilot like me could roll the Learjet on almost every single time. The ERJ is challenging to land consistently. On speed, in the touchdown zone, safe and effective? No sweat. Greasers? Hit and miss.

Learjet Plusses:

• Drag chute!
• Normal control wheel
• Excess power
• Hair-on-fire-shiteatin' grin on the empty legs

Embraer Pros

• Comfortable cockpit
• Real bathroom!
• I can make it snow in the cockpit
• Real autopilot. (But the 31 is better)

The Embraer is a great airplane and I enjoy flying it. But I won't miss it the way I do the Learjet. The Lear is a pilot's airplane. (Even though they let a joker like me fly it for almost six years. )

 

[HAZ-MAT]

the RJ??? you cannot 410 it dude :beer:

 

[CFIcare]

LJDRVR hit it right on the money when it comes to the Lear. I've flown the 25, 35 and 55 and it's a blast. The 20s and 30s are old school avionics and you will be sharp if you fly it regularly. Of course if you take a week break you'll get rusty too. The 25 empty on a cool morning will knock your socks off. The 35 is tamer, but still squirrelly on occasion. The 55 is like driving an SUV by comparison. Some have the old gauges, and some have the Collins EFIS and UNS-1s or Global FMSs. That makes life a little easier, but you still have to pay attention.

As for being hard to fly...well I've never flown an RJ so I can't compare. I did go from flying a 172 to flying the Lear 25 so I think while it was a major adjustment in just about every way, it can be done and people do it every day I'm sure.

As far as the fun factor, I doubt I'll have as much fun flying anything else regularly. Sure if i get a T-38 ride somewhere that will top the Lear, but that's not daily flying. Flying a 450 Stearman is a hoot too, but in an entirely different way.

So, yeah, I would say the Lear would beat the RJ in the fun department, and in the hard to fly catagory, well that depends on what you think hard is. Lears require you to stay awake and when you first start flying them you'll learn the real meaning of "being behind the airplane."

I heard a good quote somewhere that "nobody ever gets killed in their first 100 hours in a Lear....you are so far behind the airplane that you can walk up to the smoking crater"

My first Lear 25 takeoff was like that. The airplane was 6000+fpm climbing through 10k and I was.....in the chocks.

 

[LittleLearBoy]

I can speak for the Lear. As a former F8Dog for almost five years it RULED!!! You were a pilot in that airplane. I MISS IT!!! Can't speak for the RJ. The only time I have in it is as a pax. But I do love they way it looks, inside and out.

LLB

 

[starcheckdriver]

The 35 is a machine. The Lear 60 is even more of a machine. Empty legs at 18,000lbs. on a cool day result in a 35 degree deck angle with a climb rate in the neighborhood of 9-12,000 fpm! Pretty awesome airplane and great fun to fly. The 35 is quite the rocket ship as well!

 

[check six]

How does the 35 compare to the T38 or the MD80?

My experience:

LR24 is the fastest quickest thing I have ever flown.
LR25, only the 24 is quicker, great performer.
LR35, a little slower but more stable than 24 or 25. Use to
get 4K+ FPM climb out of it empty.
LR55, a whale compared to the others.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for all the input guys. How about the value of time in each aircraft if your goal is Fedex/UPS/Astar? I guess if you go to a regional with no growth and sit right seat for >5 years you wont be going to a major in a hurry. I've heard of guys getting on at UPS with all there turbine time being in Falcons and Lear's doing night freight, but that was a few years ago.

 

[135fr8r]

The key is not how you got your time. The key is having your time for one, and second, knowing people where you want to work.

 

[Steve]

Great info guys. thanks

 

[starchkr]

Ahhhh the Lear...my last flight in one was last night...quite the mixed feelings about leaving it too. What a great airplane!!! Nothing like a T/O at 14K lbs on a cold day and pegging the VSI at more than 6K...unfortunately i really never knew exactly how fast it was climbing in those situations. Very agile a/c, very fast but yes it would bite you if you gave it a chance. I agree that the first 100 or so hours you are so far behind the a/c that I felt as though while my first Captain was calling for the gear down before landing checklist i was still trying to get started on the after start checklist.The old saying goes..."if you can fly a learjet, you can fly anything!"Also, a good comparison i heard while at a recent interview (between the lear and the citation...yeah i know not much comparison but still...)...in the citation, if you start to screw up it will say "that's ok, here i'll help you fix the problem," if you start to screw up in the lear it simple says "here kitty kitty kitty." Man, i can't believe my lear days are over...hmmm...sad sad day. Oh well, now i get to drive a bus...oh, but will i have some GREAT memories of that lear!!

 

[Brett Hull]

The harder one to fly is definietly the RJ simply because of the pay (or lack thereof).

 

[Captain Morgan]

hey starchecker, what airline did you go to...

 

[starchkr]

I have moved on to Frontier...

 

[Steve]

I have moved on to Frontier...

Congrats/ Mind sharing your times? You can PM me.

 

[starchkr]

Last i ventured a look, my times were:~6000TT~5500 Multi~3000 Turbine / 1000 PICetc etc quite a bit over their hiring mins, but i never had the all infamous internal rec that they prefer so it took me awhile (more than 2 years) of applying and begging to get on.

 

[Palmtree Pilot]

the RJ??? you cannot 410 it dude :beer:

Just curious. Is it that much more fun to fly @ 410 than it is @370? I flew a Falcon 20 while on furlough years ago, but I don't remember going that high.

PtP

 

[OPECJet]

Takeoff from IDA to FL410 in a LR25.... 19 min with a momentary level off in the mid 30's. Had a couple of hours fuel, 4 folks in the back and medical stuff too. Temp was in the high 20's at T/O.

Rolls like a champ too. At least from what I saw at the airshow....

Absolute rocket. Other than AAN, I miss that thing dearly although the Sabreliner and Dash 8 are fun, but nothing close on performance.

 

[OPECJet]

In the 20 series, 410 is a lot more fun than 370 if you're paying the fuel bill. Other than that, not much difference except for the lower barber pole. Been a while since I've flown one, but I seem to remember a large difference in fuel burn.

 

[Dizel8]

The 20 series Lear are pretty darn thirsty, so the higher, the better. Most of the time I have in them were spent at 41-45K. Nope, flying wise not different from lower altitudes, but fuel wise, every little bit helped.

Other than the fuel issue, it truly is a great flying machine.