Lear 35 crash CA

[starchkr]

What was the n number of the a/c? Was the plane White with Blue stripes?

 

[rchcfi]

N30DK.......Flew ABQ-ELP-MMZO-SDM.

 

[vetteracer]

Evidently no one wants to hear about it...it's not a stock car team or a 121 crash.



OR someone famous, like JFK Jr. If I a ever crashed in the Mts. the best I could hope for is the CAP.

Mark

 

[vikaero]

I have had the privilige of flying with marco, laura and Donald... the medics and nurse on the ill fated flight. I fly medflight lears and know that these were good people and did not deserve to go like this. I dont know the pilots but all the same .. god speed. All I can say is my heartfelt prayers are with each of their families, may they find peace and may god be by their side.... always.

 

[aeronautic1]

Departure Proceedures

Brown Field Departure Proceedure: RWY 8L&R, climbing left turn. RWY 20L&R, climbing right turn. All aircraft climb 280 heading to intercept the MZBR R-160 northwestbound to MZB VORTAC.

It is amazing how TWO pilots can F-UP in such a big way. Departure turn is 280. Mountain is to the east, as is ABQ, their destination. Mission-itis will bite you in the arse every time. The pilots may have been swell individiuals but in this one, they screwed the pooch. Get it?

Same goes for the Hendricks Kingair. The field was below minimums and they still shot one approach. They were coming around for another approach when encountered cumulogranite. Hey, the airport didn't have an ILS, was in known mountainous terrain and they used BAD judgement. Got - To - Get - There - Itis. They destroyed a perfectly good airplane and killed a plane load of pretty nice people. Personally, I would have gone to another airport prior to shooting the approach, but then that's Part 135.

Both of these crashes were avoidable and it is our responsiblity to research the cause and effect of crashes like these and incorporate them into our CRM and situational awareness. Because just as God made little green apples, there will be another accident that could have been prevented just over the horizon. Co-pilots, challenege your captains if it just doesn't seem right. That's what your job is all about. Keeping the captain and his passengers alive!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

How do you it was a perfectly good airplane?

How do you know exactly what the wx was?

Thanks for the pep talk about being a good co-pilot and staying away from low approaches though.

Your inexperience is glaring through here fella.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Nothing wrong with taking a shot at a below mins approach (part 91), as long as you promise yourself never to bust mins - and mean it.

 

[aeronautic1]

Non-precision

WX was reported below mins as per local eye witnesses at the airport and in the area around the crash area. There were about 20 other aircraft that missed at this airport and diverted before the Kingair started the approach. Enough said.

Again, I fly 135. We divert if reported below minimums.

As far as single pilot ops in a two crewed airplane, you go BOY.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

WX was reported below mins as per local eye witnesses at the airport and in the area around the crash area. There were about 20 other aircraft that missed at this airport and diverted before the Kingair started the approach. Enough said.

Again, I fly 135. We divert if reported below minimums.

As far as single pilot ops in a two crewed airplane, you go BOY.

AH...brand new 135 guy here folks...we divert if wx is below mins (and I MAKE my Captain do it...BAD CAPTAIN!!)

and as far as slamming the dead pilots, Im glad to see your "local eye witness" said wx was below mins. Hope the same "eyewitness" is not there the first time you break your cherry and make a mins landing (it might happen) and the feds are there questioning you about the wx.

And the "about 20 aircraft" that missed? so what? how often does 1 in 10 get in at EGGW or KACK in the fog?

Have you ever even MISSED an approach in your life?
Is even ONE of those 2500hrs as PIC?

have a little respect, just maybe they did everything by the book and something else went wrong. Just maybe as they missed one engine tanked and where they wound up was the best they could. YOU DONT KNOW.

the sad part is that you dont seem to understand how stupid you sound.

 

[NJAowner]

Just my $.00002

Just my much less than 2 cents since I am not a pilot. But I read the Hendricks plane did not have GPWS and that would have helped avoid crash. Is that correct??

Fly safe.

 

[MMO 0.705]

gulfstream 200 is why im leaving crappy 135 and corporate for 121........."only new 135 guys divert if its below mins at the airport"

 

[Gulfstream 200]

gulfstream 200 is why im leaving crappy 135 and corporate for 121........."only new 135 guys divert if its below mins at the airport"

easy there John Kerry, I said nothing to that effect.

But you are correct, you may belong in an enviornment where they tell you when you can and cant shoot an approach.

A halfway competent pilot can shoot an approach to mins (even twice) and possibly still get in - even if the last hour metar is below mins. Meanwhile you.... are off to your alternate.

I dont condone breaking any rules or busting mins, just no need to be a complete puussy.

Dont be scared of a missed approach fella..

 

[satpak77]

a long time ago a 24 year old friend of mine ( ) was flying checks in a Navajo and shot the ILS 12-R at KSAT 3 times with no success, then went missed one last time and contacted departure, enroute to uh, his, alternate, which was KAUS.

Of course this was single pilot IFR, no autopilot

being the smart freight dog that he was, he had KSAT tower on Comm 2 and heard someone else finally make it in.

he returned to KSAT (and told his buddies on 122.85 of course) and shot his 4th ILS and landed, taxi to parking, have a nice day

Exchange, Starcheck, Package Express soon followed

all crews subsequently traded war stories at the Chili's near the FSDO (still there?) later that night.

ah, the memories.......(of my buddy of course)

 

[100-1/2]

aeronautic1-(french for dumba$$)

Hendrick wreck was at 12:30pm...
Here is the Wx at the time...

KMTV 241620Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM OVC006 14/13 A2998 RMK AO1=
KMTV 241640Z AUTO 22003KT 10SM OVC006 14/13 A2998 RMK AO1=

Lowest approach is a LOC 30 with HAT 600/400 for S-30 w/ DME and 1 mile vis.

I have met and know most of the HMS Pilots and they are all classy and professional for a Part 91 Operation. Their owner demands and they typically produce excellence. Anyone can Monday Morning Quarterback an approach plate or DP after someone else's unfortunate demise. I lost a great pilot friend in that crash who was just hitching a ride of convenience to arrive unscheduled and in a better place. Scott will be sorely missed by W. KY Medflight and Ft Campbell AAS where he served as a great rotorhead when not trucking Tony Stewart around in his Citation.

7 miles west of KMTV (reported area of crash) is no-man's land on any of the approach plates for the airport. the LOC 30 MAP clearly indicates a 'good' right turn back to bales for the Hold/sequence. MSA is based on Bales LOM and in the NW Quadrant the altitude is 5100'. The 10 nm ring for the holding entry and procedure turn is 2600' and is also centered on Bales LOM. The field is just 3 miles inside the NW corner of that ring and the highest point in the planview is a peak 3211' MSL WNW of the field. INOP DME and failure to start the time and/or recognize passage of LOC antenna, would put you west of the field fishing for visual cues. This will only be evident if NTSB finds indications of gear down at crash sight. Reveerse sensing of LOC past antenna would put the aircraft in a more westerly direction to (in error) recapture LOC deflections. Altitude/orientation of wreckage will point to this. Still unknown as no Prelim available yet.

Talk about F'n-up. Aeronautic1, have you ever forgot to start the time on a NP approach. If you had, how did you know where the MAP was? It is great that you have all the answers. The NTSB and FAA might as well just take and file your report and go home. It is absolutley amazing how people can deduce, dictate and discharge findings in these events without having set foot at the accident scene, heard a single transmission of ATC tape, or viewed a moment of Radar data. People like you are a detriment, disappointment and embarassment when you yield underinformed criticism of your peers mistakes rather than letting the professionals (more qualified than you) conclude findings to which you should feverishly consume in effort to gather life saving knowledge for yourself and that of your crew and cargo.

I would speculate you and the 'witness' at the airport stating "weather was below mins" are probably related. Just another 'wannabe' important person filling their inflated ego at the front office of a jungle jet. You ought to look him up and go bowling. You should get along just nicely. He'll get you pointers on how to git on da teevey kamra an' tell doze nice fokes ayt home howyouz sucha' gooood pylut, dat wedder jus wudnt goood enuff tu'be tryin'a landin', and dey end'up smakkin dat hill overyonder dere pass' da piggly wiggly.

As for the LJ35 in SOCAL. DP's like you have so cleverly descript here are lengthy and often generated for the general population (of low class bug smashers like your galaxy and hawker) and readily available on the internet for crafty folkes such as yourself, waiting to be pulled-out with the superior six-shooter and tell us all about life and how you are soooo, much better at it than the rest of us. What IS NOT craftily and readily available is notations and remarks for minimum climb performance requirements that when met, supercede those DP's. Try working a 14 hour+ HEMES shift and then doing a 91 leg home to round out your day. High School Math tells us the closest distance between two points, IS A STRAIGHT LINE. If I have been in to an airport a number of times and know each time under certain conditions, I meet those minimum performance limitations to negate the DP that takes me 5-10 minutes out of my way, I am going after the performance. On this day however, I forget to factor 2 extra pax, 750# more than I usually have in fuel, stronger westerly winds and 10'C in unseasonably warmer temps. Oh, yeah I am also a little more tired than usual and not exactly sharp on my airspeed and power settings. welcome to CFIT. I am a little long winded here because, this will obviously never happen to you. Never a dull game. Always sharp as a tack.

I came into aviation as a boy, experience has made me a man and knowledge has made me a wise old man. Repentance on behalf of my friends' mistakes has made me a religiously wise old man.

100-1/2

 

[HMR]

100-1/2 & Vikaero,
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friends. I've been there and know there are no words to make it easier.

100-1/2,
For the record: there is nothing lengthy about the KSDM DP. I fly it often in my "low class bug smasher" (Astra). And yes, I used to fly 14Hour+ air ambulance shifts in a jet and in a King Air and loved nothing more than going direct destination climbing through 50'. KSDM isn't one of those airports. It has a big airplane-eating mountain to the east and the terrain is invisible at night. I don't know what actions the LJ35 crew took but I hope they didn't disregard the DP. Fly safe.