Lear 20 info.

[T-REX]

Do any Lear drivers out there know if there is any truth to the rumor that they will not be flying after 2004 due to noise regs? I heard there is a $200K mod that isnt practical on ...well a $400K airplane.

 

[T-REX]

...For the Lear 23,24,25 "pocket-rocket" types

 

[jergar999]

I've heard those rumors, as well as rumors about their lack of GPWS and that for some reason they won't be allowed in class A airspace. Pick one up cheap, and fly it around at 17500 I guess, your first fuel bill will be more than the airplane cost.

 

[Rick1128]

RVSM

The 2004 date refers to December 2004. And it is not noise related. Stage 3 noise requirements exempt aircraft below 79,000 pounds. Stage 4 may change that, however. Some airports have restrictions on Stage 0, 1 and 2 aircraft. TEB, SMO and Naples, FL come to mind.

The real reason is RVSM. Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums. That goes into effect December 2004 and effects all aircraft.flying at or above FL290. There are two companies working on a mod for the LR20's but no one has come up with a firm price.

There has been a $200,000 ballpark price thrown out there. Yeah, it sounds expensive when compared to $400,000 to $800,000 for the aircraft. But when you realize what it will cost you to replace it, it becomes acceptable. From what I have been told about the mod, it will only be applicable to the later aircraft, having the Century III with soft flite wing.

 

[jergar999]

RVSM, not GPWS, that makes sense now. Thanks.

 

[LR25]

The only Lear20's I have seen for 400-800K are piece o crap straight 25's or warn out freighters.

A nice one is still about 1 mill I believe after you make them acceptable.

 

[Rick1128]

Not now. We just bought an early 25D for $500,000. My old 25C went for 600,000 5 months ago. As RVSM gets closer the price of LR20's will drop until the RVSM mod for them is approved. The market for the 20 series is very soft right now. Nobody wants them. Sellers may be asking a million plus, but nobody's even looking at them.

I have talked to a couple of operators that have a/c coming up on engine overhauls. They are planning on scraping the aircraft. The engine overhauls are more than the aircraft is worth.

The Lear 20's are in the same sort of situation as the old Jetstar 731's. The engines were worth more than the whole aircraft itself.

 

[LR25]

Yeah, I guess that would be right.

I remember when I was hualing checks in the Lear25 when that thing about the emergency escape hatch was going around. Talk about money!

That was going to send a bunch of airplanes to the desert if not sold for dirt. There were several operators that did not have that kind of cash to cut holes in a bunch Lears.

 

[LJDRVR]

Even if someone comes up with a RVSM mod, the cost is going to be closer to 500K. On the 30 series, the mod involves two digital altimeters with internal ADC's. The modification requires instalation of a total air temperatire probe if not so equipped. (The 20's are not.) The modification does not work on the 20's because their autopilot is not "up to snuff" concerning altitude hold tolerences. Therefore any 20's mod will also invlove redoing or replacing those lovely J.E.T. AFCS. It will be interesting to see what the 28 driver's range is going to be at 17,000 feet!

 

[LR25]

Isnt there only about 4-5 28's out there.

I saw one about 3 years ago in SDF.

 

[LJDRVR]

There are 5 28's:

-Arizona
-California (2)
-Colorado
-Mexico

All the 29's are owned by the Pakistani Air Force

Always wanted to fly one!

 

[LR25]

Whats a 29?

 

[LJDRVR]

The 29 is identical to the 28, but with six seats and an extra 600 or so pounds of fuel available in the trunk. Pakastan uses it as a high altitude stand-off reconnaissance platform.

 

[learjetguy]

28 in Mexico

saw that 28 in Cancun one time.what a ride
that would be!!

Learguy

 

[sanford&son]

so now what?

with drvsm looming, what are the plans @ the many small operators who operate these types? hate to see the 135 on my block close shop, but i don't think they have one ship w/ less than ~18,000hrs. hardly worth spending any money on those. the spirit wing folks are working on a rsvm re-fit for the 24 and 25, but #1, it's not ready, and #2, it's gonna be expensive.

on availability, averitt had several 25's of good status that were for sale a few months ago. i was told that an offer of $700k would not be laughed at.

 

[Rick1128]

The problem many operators are facing is what to replace the 20's with. No matter what the aircraft, you will still have to spend from $100,000 to 750,000 to make it RVSM.

Right now everyone is using ICAO RVSM standards to meet the requirements. The FAA has stated that the current ICAO RVSM standards would be accepted, but the TCAS II system must have Rev 7. DRVSM may be a little less expensive due to different requirements. Not much, if any.

Also there are other issues that may make it desirable to make some 20's RVSM. Like cargo STC's, etc. Before you say it, I am refering to the FAA letter that grandfathers any T-cat aircraft that had a cargo STC prior to 1998.

As for Averrit and their 20's, they would be jumping through hoops if someone offered them $700K for one of their aircraft. My boss just bought two of them for less than what the engines were worth. He's treating them like throw-aways. Run 'em out, junk 'em.