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lean for taxi ?

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Again, regardless of density altitude, if the idle mixture setting is adjusted properly, there is no need to lean. The problem is that too many owners, schools, and rental facilities see idle mixture adjustment as something that's done when the carburetor is installed or reinstalled, and that's it.

If the base elevation of the aircraft is changed, or the average temperature for a given elevation is changed (such as occurs seasonally), then the idle mixture should be readjusted as a maintenance item.

You can check the idle mixture by yourself, and should always do so as part of your post flight engine checks (just prior to shutdown). An idle check, and an idle mixture check should be part of the shutdown proceedure (and if you'll read the engine manufacturer guide, you'll probably find that for the aircraft you're flying, it is).

Run the engine up to runup RPM (typically about 1700, though it may be governed by manifold pressure instead; some engine manufacturers and aircraft manufacturers dictate using barometric pressure as the guide, rather than engine RPM...this is especially true of larger recip engines), and lean it to ensure it's clear and not loaded. Run it like that for a minute or so, leaned out, and then retard the power to idle, Return the mixture control to rich. Note the resting RPM with the throttle closed. Your airplane will have a range within which it should be idling, generally 600-800 rpm.

Check to see that it does idle, and that it isn't too erratic. Begin moving the mixture slowly to cutoff. At some point, you should get a RPM rise of no more than 25-50 RPM (check your maintenance manual for specifics), before the engine dies. As the engine begins to die, return the mixture to rich and try it again; you should get the same result.

You've just checked the idle mixture. As you moved the mixture to cutoff, if the idle mixture was adjusted properly, you saw a very slight increase in the idle rpm, often almost imperceptible. If there was no increase, the idle mixture was already too lean. If there was any more than about a 25 rpm increase, it was too rich.

Note that the point on the mixture travel where this occurs is the only place that the mixture control will have any effect on an idling engine. You can move the control where ever you like the rest of the time, to no effect. Try it next time you fly, and you'll quickly see that there is only a very small point on the mixture control, a couple of milimeters of travel often times, that has any effect on that idle mixture.

Bear in mind that other things can cause loading up during taxi. A leaking primer can do so, and can cause a number of other problems, including engine failure. A plunger type primer with a bad packing/o-ring can lead to the engine drawing fuel, or air, and can alter the mixture at the individual cylinder. This is sometimes a little harder to detect, as usually only a few cylinders receive primer; the effect isn't as perceptible.

Before looking at ground leaning practices (which may be important), look at the maintenance the airplane is receiving in the first place. That's always a good place to start.
 
avbug said:
Again, regardless of density altitude, if the idle mixture setting is adjusted properly, there is no need to lean.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. If the mixture were set for idle at a specific field elevation, wouldn't that cause problems as soon as you landed at another airport?

You may well be right, but if my airplane id set for idle already leaned at Leadville (9927 msl) wouldn't that mean I would be guaranties to starve the engine before I ever landed at a sea level airport?
 
Therein lies the problem with quotations taken partially, or out of context. I addressed this previously by stating:

If the base elevation of the aircraft is changed, or the average temperature for a given elevation is changed (such as occurs seasonally), then the idle mixture should be readjusted as a maintenance item.
You questioned the statement that if the idle mixture is adjusted properly, there is no need to lean.

I stated several times now that the idle mixture must be adjusted for the base elevation. If you change your base, or operate out of a different location, the idle mixture is no longer appropriate and may need adjustment.

If you've adjusted to a high altitude, your idle mixture may be too lean for lower elevations. You may need to open the throttle enough to be operating off your main jets. You can't enrichen it.

Part of the purpose of properly adjusting your idle mixture is to ensure it's slightly rich, as will be noted in the procedure I previously outlined. Allowance is then made for descent to a lesser elevation.

As noted, there is almost no ability to lean the idle mixture using the mixture control; the only leaning capability you have is rotating the mixture to the cutoff position, and using the actual cutoff to modulate what little fuel flow remains. That's a little like trying to regulate fuel flow in flight by partially closing your fuel selector valve...it's not the way the system was designed, and makes very little sense.

If you're constantly flying from leadville, CO, then adjusting your idle mixture for that elevation makes a lot of sense. If you're only going to visit there, then adjusting the idle mixture for that elevation is foolishness.

Leaning is a very misunderstood area among pilots, even experienced ones. Pilots often lean for takeoff at runup RPM, which also accomplishes nothing. Pilots seldom lean properly for landing, or perform post-flight runups as most manufacturers dictate. Tell them aboutit, and the response is usually that they've not heard of it, and therefore it's not the correct way to do business.

Many pilots are afraid of and don't understand lean of peak operations. Many pilots don't understand EGT and CHT...or even the principles of their fuel and induction system. Understanding these things for some is an anoyance, but for others it can become a matter of life and death. Try introducing the subject of carburetor icing, and see how many have absolutely no clue when it comes to formation, recognition, prevention, or removal. None. I've seen folks deadstick the airplane and have no idea that it was carburetor ice...and then be amazed when I've climbed into the airplane and fired it right up for them. Idle mixture is no different.

Idle mixture cannot (should not) be adjusted on the road by the pilot (it's possible, but not legal, nor recommended). Adjust it per the manufacturer recommendations, and do it regularly, and it's not a problem. It is possible to affect the idle mixture by using the cutoff feature of the main jet mixture (the mixture control in the cockpit), but only in a rough way, and not very effectively.
 
Vik said:
I think bobbysamd has introduced leaning for take off, which of course you should do above 3,000 ft and there is a procedure for this, its not done at idle.

Lets not confuse leaning for taxi and leaning for takeoff.
That procedure would be....?

I'm guessing apply the breaks, takeoff power, lean to max RPM, then you're set?

-mini
 
minitour,

According to the Cessna POH, if you are planning to lean on T/O, you should perform a full-power static run-up and lean for peak RPM.

Again, this procedure applies to the 152 I fly. Many a/c will specify different procedures to lean on T/O- in fact, some may even forbid it (I read that if your engine is turbocharged, you should keep the mixture full rich on T/O).

Some POHs also often state that the mixture must NOT be leaned below a certain % power (example: 75%). If your taking-off from a high elevation airport, and your engine puts out more than 75% power at max power, you should still keep the mixture rich, despite the fact that you may be above 3000 feet. Once you throttle back below 75%, you should start leaning.
 
uwochris said:
minitour,

According to the Cessna POH, if you are planning to lean on T/O, you should perform a full-power static run-up and lean for peak RPM.

Again, this procedure applies to the 152 I fly...

I knew I saw that somewhere :p

-mini
 
AvBug,

I understood what you said. I still don't understand how it works. I currently fly out of Centennial (5883) and lean for taxi every single time. Depending on the density altitude that day, sometimes I need to lean more and sometimes I need to lean less. If what you are saying is correct, every single piston powered airplane I have flown, regardless or make, model, N-number, age, FBO, maintenance shop used, etc, has been set wrong.

That's certainly possible, but I need to understand it. So, let me take a scenario step by step so you can correct me at the source of the error.

My base is Leadville (9927 msl), so my idle mixture is set for that airport.

Now, maybe I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds like what you said is that, with the manual mixture control at full rich, the airplane is already leaned properly for idle operation at Leadville. Therefore it is unnecessary to lean for taxi at Leadville.

1: I don't understand why variations in density altitude don't require leaning? At what temperature is the initial setting based? I don't see how a mixture set, say for standard temperature is proper for a nice balmy 20°C day when the density altitude on the ground is over 12,500'

2: I take off from Leadville and fly to Centennial (5883 msl) just for the day.

As I see it, if the idle mixture is already leaned for the ground at Leadville, it is =way= too lean for Centennial. And there is no way to enrichen the mixture. So the engine starves sometime on approach to Centennial.
 
I think what avbug is pointing at is that you do not need to lean the mixture while taxiing IF the throttle is at idle. If not, then leaning will have an affect on fuel flow and temps.

This has to do with the construction of the carburetor. I liked the article on "howstuffworks.com." (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question377.htm.) Note the "idle jet," which is required because there is not enough airflow through the venturi to create a low enough pressure to draw fuel from the nozzle. The idle jet allows fuel flow to the cylinders, and this cannot be controlled by the pilot. It is set by the mechanics.

I hope I'm not off base on your interpretation avbug. If I am, I apologize for causing more confusions!

Chris.
 
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BoDEAN said:
We took it off our checklists.
Jeff, as a fellow Michigander, I've done just the opposite--I've added it to my checklist after flying in Colorado with Midlifeflyer. In Colorado, I leaned for taxi because I had to (we flew from Denver to Aspen, Leadville (9927'), etc.). However, I do it here in Michigan primarily due to plug fouling. Since doing so, I have not had a single fouled plug.
 
midlifeflyer said:
And there is no way to enrichen the mixture. So the engine starves sometime on approach to Centennial.
Midlife, this statement suggests a misunderstanding of idle mixture. When your engine is idling, meaning the throttle plate is very close to being closed, the fuel is supplied to the engine through an idle jet, little or no fuel is supplied by the main jet in the venturi. The fuel air ratio during idle is controlled by a needle valve which is ground adjustable.

At higher power settings (ie: in flight) the adjustment of the needle valve in the idle circuit has no signifcant effect on the fuel air mixture. it is too small, and because of the throttle position, there is no vacumn present to draw fuel from the idle jet. In flight the fuel air-ratio is controlled by the main metering jet and the position of the mixture control valve. Simply put, the adjustment (or misadjustment)of your idle mixture valve will not result in being unable to enrichen your mixture sufficiently for flight at low altitude. Your airplane will not quit running in the air due to insufficient fuel, while on this hypothetical flight from leadville to denver. You may however, find upon landing at denver that your engine is running quite lean while idling, perhaps too lean to run smoothly. Your only recourse at this point is to have a mechanic run out and adjust your idle mixture valve.

I think that perhaps you are having difficulty sorting out the facts from opinion here. Avbugs facts are, as usual, dead on target. His opinions are have merit also (as they usually do) but you may be blurring the distinction between the two which is hampering your understanding.

midlifeflyer said:
I don't understand why variations in density altitude don't require leaning?
whether it *requires* leaning is a matter of opinion. As a *factual* matter, the density altitude *will* affect the idle mixture (notice that avbug states that idle mixture needs to be adjusted as average temp varies seasonally, so we concur on that fact)


midlifeflyer said:
At what temperature is the initial setting based?
At the existing ambient temperature on the day it was adjusted. If you had a mechanic adjust your mixture on a morning when the temp was 60 degrees, and a week later you go flying in midafternoon when the temp is 90 F, your idle mixture will be richer. As factual matter it will be approximately the same amount richer as it would be if you had gained 2000' in altitude. Does this require additional leaning? That is a matter of *opinion*

Will the mixture control affect the idle mixture? yes, it will, that is a fact. *Should* you use it to adjust mixture? That is a matter of opinion.

It is true that the mixture control is designed to most effectively regulate fuel flows much greater than idle fuel flows. It is true that it only regulates the idle fuel flow at the extreme end of it's operating range. It is true that if you pull the mixture control out halfway, you haven't affected the idle mixture one iota. It is true that adjusting the mixture while idling requires a careful touch. These are facts. Does this mean that one should not use the mixture to lean on the ground? That is a matter of opinion.

As a factual matter, a mechanic following the prescribed procedures will set the idle mixture rich. (an RPM rise on shutdown indicates a slightly rich mixture) That's what the maintence manuals call for. Whether or not this is the best idle mixture is a matter of opinion. Some may prefer to accept this slightly rich idle mixture setting, others may prefer to adjust it using the mixture control. If you fall in this second group, be aware that moving the mixture control out *a bit* doesn't do anything at all. If you do not move the mixture out until there is a change in RPM you haven't accomplished anything at all.

What do *I* do? While taxiing in my personal airplane, I lean until I get an RPM drop. Why? It won't hurt the engine and it makes me happy. It *may* reduce spark plug fouling. As a factual matter, an engine which is idling very excessively rich will foul sparkplugs. On the other hand, one which is running quite lean will not. So, will an engine idling with the mixture lean of peak foul fewer plugs than it will at it's properly set, slightly rich idle mixture? I like to believe that is true, but I don't have any factual data to support that.
 
Leaning for taxi

Vik said:
I think bobbysamd has introduced leaning for take off, which of course you should do above 3,000 ft and there is a procedure for this, its not done at idle.

Lets not confuse leaning for taxi and leaning for takeoff.
No confusion. In Denver and at Riddle we always arbitrarily leaned the mixture about one-half inch or so for taxi. For takeoff, during runup, power to 1700, lean to peak (or EGT), then back in about two turns (or a couple of notches if a ratchet-type mixture control was present), check mags, etc.
 
bobbysamd said:
In Denver and at Riddle we always arbitrarily leaned the mixture about one-half inch or so for taxi.
Arbitrary, and completely ineffectual. As stated by several before, pulling back "a half inch" or "half travel" or some other arbitrary amount has no effect. Unless you pull the mixture control back until you get an RPM rise or change in engine sound, you might as well leave it full forward. As several have said, the mixture control valve is a fairly high flow valve, it has no effect on idle mixture until it is almost completely closed (idle cut-off)

Here's an analogy: Open your sink faucet just a little, just enough for a small trickle to flow. Now, go down into the basement and turn the main water service valve halfway toward closed. Go back up to the kitchen, and take a look at the sink. You'll find that the faucet is still running at the same rate. This is exactly what happens to your idle mixture when you pull the mixture knob back halfway, or half an inch: Nothing.
 
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A Squared said:
Here's an analogy: Open your sink faucet just a little, just enough for a small trickle to flow. Now, go down into the basement and turn the main water service valve halfway toward closed. Go back up to the kitchen, and take a look at the sink. You'll find that the faucet is still running at the same rate. This is exactly what happens to your idle mixture when you pull the mixture knob back halfway, or half an inch: Nothing.
That is a really good way to explain it...wow...you dont mind if I add that to my notes do you?

-mini
 

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