Lawyers. I’ll tell them something.

[CurlyD777]

So anyone looking at the news lately on a long layover may have read this article about the America West pilots attempting to fly intoxicated a couple years ago. Now before anyone gets ready to bash on any airline, this is to be about the lawyers this time.



The two pilots are on trial right now for endangering 120 some passengers on their 319 while they were both clearly over the .08 level for driving, let alone the FAA rules or even the America West rules for drinking. They combined had 22 glasses of beer and a bottle of wine up to 5am the night before their 10am flight. They are on trail for a reason, and I think they should be criminally punished for this infraction. Luckily there was no accident.



Here’s what frustrates me.

“Defense attorneys said the pilots should not be convicted because they were not "operating" the plane at the time in question. The aircraft was being towed away from the gate and the driver of the tug truck had control of the aircraft, they said.

"They couldn't endanger anyone as long as they were connected to that tug," said Cloyd's attorney, Dan Foodman. "The plane is inoperable at all times that they were in that plane."

What? So I guess they were planning on being sober by the time they disconnected from the tug, and everything would have been all fine.

It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out in the next couple days. I can’t believe that we have to actually consider the “rights” of the pilots since they were apprehended before they actually committed any harm. What about the rights of 120 passengers who just need to get to another destination?

 

[PoorJetDriver]

They're screwed, nice try. The Capt's signature on the release indicates they intended to fly that day not to mention pushing back, boarding. What would've happened if they had a fire on board during pushback?

 

[CurlyD777]

Exactly

They're screwed, nice try. The Capt's signature on the release indicates they intended to fly that day not to mention pushing back, boarding. What would've happened if they had a fire on board during pushback?

I forgot to put this in for the story.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/23/crime.pilots.reut/index.html

 

[HughBeamont]

But it's an Airbus. Aren't the alcohol consumption rules different because you don't directly fly the plane? 4 hours bottle to throttle? <0.15% BAC? Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[Yellow Snow]

You don't need to be drunk to crash an airbus. It'll just drive itself into the nearest stand of trees.

 

[doh]

Well I don't know about the FO, but the PIC should be fushed! At least at Comair, I assume command when the door closes. Do they push back the bus with the door open at Cactus. Well then, he's had a fair trial... hang him!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Question, Counselor...

Were they "operating" the APU or the electrical system or intercom system at the time?

 

[~~~^~~~]

They are on trail for a reason, and I think they should be criminally punished for this infraction. Luckily there was no accident.

I can’t believe that we have to actually consider the “rights” of the pilots since they were apprehended before they actually committed any harm. What about the rights of 120 passengers who just need to get to another destination?

The pilots have already been on "trial" (and it is not "trail" you moron) when the FAA revoked their certificates, they lost their careers, America West fired them and they paid $100,000+ out of their own pockets in defense costs.

What is happening now is that the State of Florida's politically ambitious prosecutor is trying to move State law into an area preempted by Federal regulation.

Yes, we need to consider their rights to be safe from double punishment for the same "crime." We need to consider their rights to a fair trial. Their rights, are my rights and your rights too, under the Constitution of our great Nation. Your suggestion that some people's rights should be ignored is how freedom ends.

 

[wingnutt]

what??? is ~~~^~~~ the only one with any sense here? they paid their fine, lost their license, and now the state wants to get their paws in the cookie jar...and every one of you yahoos are cheering them on???

...did i miss something???

 

[TonyC]

what??? is ~~~^~~~ the only one with any sense here? they paid their fine, lost their license, and now the state wants to get their paws in the cookie jar...and every one of you yahoos are cheering them on???

...did i miss something???

The only thing you missed is that Curly started the same thread in two forums. Lawyers, I'll tell them something. in the "Aviation Interview Board / Majors" forum is the thread that seems to have attracted more attention. Why it had to be posted in two places, why it belongs in "Regionals" forum, and why it belongs on the "Aviation Interview Board" in the first place are among questions that I have about it.


It seems to me it belongs in the Aviation Message Board / General section, but that's just me. Ultimately, it being here (and there) makes about as much sense as the premise of the original pos(s).

 

[wingnutt]

errrr...ok, i hadnt read that thread. just got back into town, and click "new posts". this one was on top...my apologies if i knocked the third moon of jupiter out of alignment, or caused some similar quandry for you to wring your hands over

 

[TonyC]

errrr...ok, i hadnt read that thread. just got back into town, and click "new posts". this one was on top...my apologies if i knocked the third moon of jupiter out of alignment, or caused some similar quandry for you to wring your hands over

No apologies necessary - - I suppose I didn't communicate too well that, in fact, ~~~^~~~ is not the only one with sense here. It's just that more folks of like sentiment contributed on the other thread of the same title.


I haven't checked on the Jupiter moon thingie, though. How do you tell if that's outta whack?






.

 

[wingnutt]

I haven't checked on the Jupiter moon thingie, though. How do you tell if that's outta whack?

lol...beats the hell outa me. surely one of the local know-it-alls here on flightinfo will chime in...whatcha wanna bet

 

[DC8 Flyer]

The pilots have already been on "trial" (and it is not "trail" you moron) when the FAA revoked their certificates, they lost their careers, America West fired them and they paid $100,000+ out of their own pockets in defense costs.

What is happening now is that the State of Florida's politically ambitious prosecutor is trying to move State law into an area preempted by Federal regulation.

Yes, we need to consider their rights to be safe from double punishment for the same "crime." We need to consider their rights to a fair trial. Their rights, are my rights and your rights too, under the Constitution of our great Nation. Your suggestion that some people's rights should be ignored is how freedom ends.

So when someone drives drunk and gets pulled over the only thing that should happen is a revocation of their license [a privelage just like a pilots license]?

They wouldnt have been fired or had to pay 100K in costs if they would have just been responsible adults/professionals and left the drinking to days when they are not on duty, especially 5 freaking hours before departure.

This is just like that tool for NWA that got busted flying a 727 from FAR to MSP and then got his job back after he was convicted and then went to rehab. Think about it folks, this isnt the first time these idiots have flown drunk. Yank the certs for good we don't need them occupying the skies with us. Throw em in jail for attempted homicide of 100 plus people because thats exactly what it was, they knowingly drank too much too close to departure time and knowingly got in the aircraft with the intent to fly. Forget the book throw the whole **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** library at them.

 

[TonyC]

So when someone drives drunk and gets pulled over the only thing that should happen is a revocation of their license [a privelage just like a pilots license]?

Actually, the punishment for a first offense is far less severe in most places.

(Why is it that "privilege" is such a spelling challenge around here, anyhow? )

Yank the certs for good we don't need them occupying the skies with us.

Ummmm ... can somebody define "revocation" for this guy?

Throw em in jail for attempted homicide of 100 plus people because thats exactly what it was, they knowingly drank too much too close to departure time and knowingly got in the aircraft with the intent to fly.

Yeah... great idea. That's exactly what we do to first-time drunk drivers. They down a beer or two, hop immediately in their car, and before they even drive out of the parking lot, we stop them and charge them with attempted homicide. At least we are consistent, right?

Forget the book throw the whole **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** library at them.

Yepp. That's how our great country works - - forget about that rule of law stuff. You'd have been great on one of those "old West" posses, huh?!?

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Civil v. Criminal.

There is a difference between a civil trial and a criminal trial. Take O.J. for example: acquitted criminally, then sued civilly. (The license revocation is yet another. That's administrative.) Double jeopardy only applies to being tried twice, criminally.

I will however recognize your point about the federal vs. state issue. It seems to me that this is a federal issue, but it doesn't surprise me if the state prosecutor found some statute on the books. Why is it still in court?

 

[BankAccount=0$]

Yepp. That's how our great country works - - forget about that rule of law stuff. You'd have been great on one of those "old West" posses, huh?!?

Tony, surely you're not advocating the disbandment of the "old West" posse form of justice are you?? If that was the case then how would justice be served in places like Nevada, and West Virginia??

Also let us not judge others on their spelling and or grammer mistakes. I remember asking the moderators to appoint you as the FlightInfo.com spelling Czar, and you said you would not serve if elected. Fred can't possibly be keeping you too busy to put a little time into editing mistakes on flightinfo.com can he??

 

[TonyC]

Tony, surely you're not advocating the disbandment of the "old West" posse form of justice are you?? If that was the case then how would justice be served in places like Nevada, and West Virginia??

Come to think of it, I s'pose a few good ol' fashioned hangin's might clean out the justice system hotel chains.

Also let us not judge others on their spelling and or grammer mistakes. I remember asking the moderators to appoint you as the FlightInfo.com spelling Czar, and you said you would not serve if elected. Fred can't possibly be keeping you too busy to put a little time into editing mistakes on flightinfo.com can he??

OH, you know I don't judge by spelling OR grammar! I couldn't help but interject an aside about that particular word, being as I've seen several variations of it in the past 12 or so hours.

There are at least two reasons why I cannot serve as Spelling Sherriff. One, it would be a fulltime job for a staff of at least a dozen high school graduates. Second, it would mean I'd have to check my own stuff, and heaven knows I make my share of spelling errors. Furthermore, many would argue that my brand of Suthern doesn't qualify as grammar.

Therefore, I'll attempt to refrain from comments about either unless there is humor or irony to be pointed out. Double points if it's both.


Interestingly, my recent research into early posts on this board revealed a request from the infancy of the board for a spell checker. I guess we'll live without it.

 

[TonyC]

There is a difference between a civil trial and a criminal trial. Take O.J. for example: acquitted criminally, then sued civilly. ... Double jeopardy only applies to being tried twice, criminally.

The criminal offense for which Mr. Simpson was acquitted was materailly different from the civil offense for which he was convicted. It's not like it was "criminal murder" and "civil murder." The jurisdiction for both was the same - - the State of California. There was not a "City of Los Angeles" statute against murder for which he could be tried in addition to the state's case.

I will however recognize your point about the federal vs. state issue. It seems to me that this is a federal issue, but it doesn't surprise me if the state prosecutor found some statute on the books. Why is it still in court?

Excellent question. I'm sure there are legal "experts" that have an opinion about that issue. I wouldn't be surprised if the pilots are convicted, and their case is elevated to a higher court where the jusrisdiction issue is raised, and the verdict is subsequently set aside.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

..nvm

 

[KingKong2]

123456789

 

[HughBeamont]

123456789

Are you counting pixels on your monitor again Rainman?

 

[Rattler71]

errrr...ok, i hadnt read that thread. just got back into town, and click "new posts". this one was on top...my apologies if i knocked the third moon of jupiter out of alignment, or caused some similar quandry for you to wring your hands over

LMAO


Rattler71

 

[Deerkiller]

Flightinfo.com Knocks Orbits Out Of Whack

errrr...ok, i hadnt read that thread. just got back into town, and click "new posts". this one was on top...my apologies if i knocked the third moon of jupiter out of alignment, or caused some similar quandry for you to wring your hands over

DEAR GOD LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE!!!!!!

MARS SPECTACULAR!

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287.

Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.

By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m.

That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month.

Share this with your children and grandchildren. NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I haven't checked on the Jupiter moon thingie, though. How do you tell if that's outta whack?



.

Check the Whack Gauge. It's outta Whack when the Whack Tank is empty. You just fill'er back up with more Whack.