latest Wilson Polling for ALPA

[slam_clicker]

Just got the call. No not the one that frees me from regional hell, but one from the "Wilson Center for public research". I spent 15 minutes on the phone expressing my views about ALPA and uniform national contract standards for pay, etc. They asked every conceivable question about the latter issue.

Could this mean ALPA is seeking to adopt a uniform minimum contract standard (equipment specific) across all of the carriers they represent?

Anyone else give up 15 minutes of their life they won't ever get back? (Admittedly, it was nice to go on a rant about ALPA and the industry in general, even if the guy on the other end was being paid (more than I am) to listen.)

 

[mavdog]

I got that same call yesterday... I was 'busy'. Nevermind the fact that I no longer work for an ALPA carrier.

 

[Alchemy]

I think it's a good idea and answered "very strongly support" to most of the "How do you feel about hard minimum standards for contracts?" questions.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just be careful. The minimum standards get applied to carriers like Mesaba while Northwest pilots negotiate whatever they want and take the flying.

It is hard to enforce a minimum standard when ALPA has a double standard.

 

[Peter Griffin]

It is hard to enforce a minimum standard when ALPA has a double standard.

Isnt that the truth...Ive worked for both union and non-union carriers, and while I cant deny the union does do some good on an individual level, it caters to the big boys (i.e. big money)

 

["GO AROUND"]

I got the call as well. My final comment was "this is too little too late."

As for the majors, there was a question about their support of this and if it was necessary for it to work. My answer, "absolutely, positively, can't work without it".

 

[Alchemy]

Yeah, I said that too. It's not out of the realm of possibility for the majors to start undercutting the regionals on 70 and 90 seat aircraft. Look at the latest pay rates at Jetblue and USair....we're not too far away from that. These "ALPA minmum payrates" should be applied to all ALPA carriers.

Then again, this could just give non-ALPA carriers like Republic that much more leverage in negotiating further contract flying. If they undercut ALPA consistently what's the point.

 

[mckpickle]

I got polled tonight as well

I found the questions and choices to be confusing at points. It's a good idea but with airlines like Skywest, and Others that are Teasmsters, how can we hope to achieve anything together?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's a good idea but with airlines like Skywest, and Others that are Teasmsters, how can we hope to achieve anything together?

Then again, this could just give non-ALPA carriers like Republic that much more leverage in negotiating further contract flying. If they undercut ALPA consistently what's the point.

Perhaps the issue is more complex than the flightinfo collective..............

Who would've known.....

Guys working the issue full time in WashDC might be aware of the quandary....

Amazing...

 

[PalmettoPilot]

It's not out of the realm of possibility for the majors to start undercutting the regionals on 70 and 90 seat aircraft. Look at the latest pay rates at Jetblue and USair....we're not too far away from that. These "ALPA minmum payrates" should be applied to all ALPA carriers.

I'm guessing that you consider your status as a regional airline pilot to be permanent? Would it not be better for a major carrier to undercut regionals for the time being and get a strong scope clause thereby creating more jobs at the major level?

Wouldn't the majority of regional pilots prefer to move to a job at the major level sometime in the future? Increasing the size of the regional fleet is only going to limit the possibilities for long the long term.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Perhaps the issue is more complex than the flightinfo collective..............

Who would've known.....

Guys working the issue full time in WashDC might be aware of the quandary....

Amazing...

I used to enjoy your posts, but lately you've become pretty needlessly hostile. I'm guessing you've decided to take the vinegar approach versus the honey approach. Hope that works out for you.

As to your "guys" working the issue in "WashDC," pardon me if I take a wait-and-see, show-me, attitude about that.

I know, I know, amazing...that I won't take you at your word that the beltway bandits have us lowly worker bees best interests front-and-center.

Rez, seriously, when you want to be, you're informative. But what's the point of your post in this case?

 

[AV8700]

I wouldn't answer any question that dealt with min standards until they applied it to all carriers. That part took about 5 minutes then came the 10 minute answer on ALPA National.

 

[D'Angelo]

Rez is just a totally brainwashed cheerleader. He is unwilling to accept any opinion that goes against his precious ALPO. He is unwilling to open his mind and find new horizons that are out there. Totally unwilling to realize that rome is burning. He will just play the pied piper tune then one day wake up and see that Rome is in ruins and that he missed the bus. Its one thing to be pro union. Its quite another to attack everyone that has a negative opinion about ALPO.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Rez is just a totally brainwashed cheerleader. He is unwilling to accept any opinion that goes against his precious ALPO. He is unwilling to open his mind and find new horizons that are out there. Totally unwilling to realize that rome is burning. He will just play the pied piper tune then one day wake up and see that Rome is in ruins and that he missed the bus. Its one thing to be pro union. Its quite another to attack everyone that has a negative opinion about ALPO.

Once and for all, why don't you just STFU? You've got to infect every thread with your Ford & Harrison bullcrap? When we want your opinion, we'll send a memo to your management that you can then come on here and parrot. If your handlers knew you were having the opposite effect that they intended you to have, they'd be horrified.

Damn good thing FI bannings aren't handed out on a popularity basis, because you've got to be the least popular piece of suet on here nowadays.

You think you're being all gangsta anti-union, but it's clear as crystal that you are anti-labor. Get a clue and realize there's a fight going on right now: but it's a fight between labor (us lowly pilots) and organized corporate interests: airline managements, anti-labor law firms and PR consultants, and to some extent, unfortunately, for some of us, our own corporate-ized labor unions. It's bad enough we have to push back against management (and idiots like you), but some of us have to push back against our own "national" organizations.

I realize I'm going way over your head, but maybe you can print this out and take it to one of the interns at your law firm of Ford & Harrison and have them explain it to you. Get lost turd-ball.

 

[Alchemy]

I'm guessing that you consider your status as a regional airline pilot to be permanent? Would it not be better for a major carrier to undercut regionals for the time being and get a strong scope clause thereby creating more jobs at the major level?

Wouldn't the majority of regional pilots prefer to move to a job at the major level sometime in the future? Increasing the size of the regional fleet is only going to limit the possibilities for long the long term.

No, I hope my status as a regional pilot isn't permanent. I would rather see all jets at mainline (heck all props too), but I believe "minimums payrates" would be impossible to enforce at regionals if you had mainline guys hypothetically working for less. We haven't reached that point yet, but like I said, it could be getting close. Regardlress of whether they're mainline or contract pilots, I don't want to see regional aircraft flown for less money thant hey already are. If these airlines can't afford to pay X payscale for Y aircraft, then they should close the operation.

 

[Alchemy]

Perhaps the issue is more complex than the flightinfo collective..............

Who would've known.....

Guys working the issue full time in WashDC might be aware of the quandary....

Amazing...

Ahhh yes, continue to belittle the blind masses. What can we do but speculate? ALPA leadership communicates NEXT TO NOTHING to the rank and file membership about how they're approaching topics, other than the once or twice yearly wilson polling. Funny how I get nothing but ridicule and agreesion from ALPA people whenever I try to talk about anything like this.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Once and for all, why don't you just STFU? You've got to infect every thread with your Ford & Harrison bullcrap? When we want your opinion, we'll send a memo to your management that you can then come on here and parrot. If your handlers knew you were having the opposite effect that they intended you to have, they'd be horrified.

Don't send a memo-- He probably is Mgmt.

Quote: dang good thing FI bannings aren't handed out on a popularity basis, because you've got to be the least popular piece of suet on here nowadays.

Just couldn't agree more- I ignore him.

Quote: You think you're being all gangsta anti-union, but it's clear as crystal that you are anti-labor.


Or-Could it be he's really just a disgruntled CFI who wonders why we're all complaining about having to work only5 or six days a week for that huge sum of cash we take home. Get a life desiree - I mean DeAngelo

 

[D'Angelo]

I have been a CFI in the past however am an airline pilot now. 5 or 6 days a week please what airline do you work for? I work 3-4 days a week. plus I usually get about 15 days off/month. I am not anti labor. I myself am labor however I am absolutely anti union. They build up this mob mentality making everyone think they need to always shoot for a moon. Its simply not needed to keep making outlandish wages. Union people just want to line their pockets with more dues

 

[goodto50meters]

I have been a CFI in the past however am an airline pilot now. 5 or 6 days a week please what airline do you work for? I work 3-4 days a week. plus I usually get about 15 days off/month. I am not anti labor. I myself am labor however I am absolutely anti union. They build up this mob mentality making everyone think they need to always shoot for a moon. Its simply not needed to keep making outlandish wages. Union people just want to line their pockets with more dues

How much is the RAA paying you to flame this board?

 

[Peter Griffin]

nice picture 50 meters...I

 

[Peter Griffin]

I dont care who you voted for either, thats funny

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Ahhh yes, continue to belittle the blind masses. What can we do but speculate? ALPA leadership communicates NEXT TO NOTHING to the rank and file membership about how they're approaching topics, other than the once or twice yearly wilson polling. Funny how I get nothing but ridicule and agreesion from ALPA people whenever I try to talk about anything like this.

Who have you talked to at XJT ALPA and how have they given your ridicule and aggression?

Have you read the various bylines and articles in the ALPA magazine about what the Fee For Departure Task Force is doing and who is on the committee, etc?

-Neal

 

[blueridge71]

No, I hope my status as a regional pilot isn't permanent. I would rather see all jets at mainline (heck all props too), but I believe "minimums payrates" would be impossible to enforce at regionals if you had mainline guys hypothetically working for less.

On the other hand, there wouldn't be a need for regionals if the mainline pilots are cheaper. Obviously, that isn't the best solution....

 

[saabservant]

As an alpa volunteer, I've supported the goals of the "fee for departure" task force, but it may be interesting to note how the mainline at nwa is allowing a third airlink subsidiary to be set up, which will be used to whipsaw against pinnacle and mesaba.
Kind of futile to spend time on this pie in the sky, when mainline and alpa national allow those of us already here to be thrown under the bus...

Remember the "Brand Scope" idea?

It's hard to "hold the line" or maintain minimum standards when these things happen. It's been noted by others and I'll repeat: regional pilots interests are secondary at alpa, and are only to be used as bargaining credits by mainline negotiators to enhance gains or mitigate losses...just a hard reality, time to get out, or start a revolution at alpa. But you know who has the gold there.

 

[D'Angelo]

As an alpa volunteer, I've supported the goals of the "fee for departure" task force, but it may be interesting to note how the mainline at nwa is allowing a third airlink subsidiary to be set up, which will be used to whipsaw against pinnacle and mesaba.
Kind of futile to spend time on this pie in the sky, when mainline and alpa national allow those of us already here to be thrown under the bus...

Remember the "Brand Scope" idea?

It's hard to "hold the line" or maintain minimum standards when these things happen. It's been noted by others and I'll repeat: regional pilots interests are secondary at alpa, and are only to be used as bargaining credits by mainline negotiators to enhance gains or mitigate losses...just a hard reality, time to get out, or start a revolution at alpa. But you know who has the gold there.

Thats right its time to start impeaching alpa right now!! They will not listen until they start running out of money! Throw em to the curb!!!

 

[saabservant]

The only thing worse than working in a dysfunctional "union" is being an obvious so-called "management" puke who has sold out his soul to crush the only thing standing between working under nothing but the FAR's, on unsafe aircraft, and collective bargaining which protects the public, your paycheck, and your career.
That was tried in the 30's and 40's, how good did it work D'Angelo? Dork...
Learn the history of this industry and alpa...

 

[D'Angelo]

The only thing worse than working in a dysfunctional "union" is being an obvious so-called "management" puke who has sold out his soul to crush the only thing standing between working under nothing but the FAR's, on unsafe aircraft, and collective bargaining which protects the public, your paycheck, and your career.
That was tried in the 30's and 40's, how good did it work D'Angelo? Dork...
Learn the history of this industry and alpa...

Then what do you propose? Maintain status quo? Obviously unions are not doing a very good job right now. The only time a union is truly effective is when the majors are profitable. They could be a long way out based on fuel prices. So whats it gonna be? Stick with the status quo and take the mob mentality way? Sit there screaming hold the line and hope for the best? Its funny they call this a "fee for departure" task force. Recent articles have indicated the fee for departure arrangement may be going out the window. Then what do we do? No regional would be profitable without that fee for departure deal. If you really want to make a difference then its try to make some noise. You can either sit there like sheep to the slaughter repeating the same ALPO rhetoric over and over. Management= BAAAAAAAAD Union = GOOOOOOD. Management = ripping employees off. Paying union dues = best thing since sliced breaaaaaaaad. If you want to make a difference start getting an in house regional type union together. ALPA was made from nothing and so could starting an in house union. ALPO isnt the only way to go and they need to be shown that. You simply with hold your dues. Start running those drives to impeach those greedy SOBs and start a new era. You can tell them its time for them to get the hell out and bring someone in who represents your best interests. If the pilot groups find no union is best then so be it. Again union or not if a company gets caught trying to pressure a pilot into flying unsafe/illegal aircraft the FAA will be all over it. This is a 121 world heavily watched by the FAA. It isnt like the old days when there was no load manifest nor a release. Times have changed since then. Its time to stop thinking the old school way. So GIVE ALPO HELL is the new logo!!!!

 

[f/o(forever)]

oops!