Latest from CAL and UAL MECs regarding Joint Contract negotiations

[mamba20]

Can we get back on topic now? I dosen't matter who is in office! They all go for money and will support the corporation everytime! These United State of Capitalism couldn't care less about the working class! Wake up!

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Holy ******************** man, that was hysterical. If you just copied and pasted it would still be funny, but if you thought that up you are in the wrong business. I'm still laughing. Good for you. We all need a laugh.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Yes we all do need a laugh.

But just like a previous poster said, the companies can violate the law, win in arbitration or court and the unions have to play by the RLA? Give me a break!

CAL ALPA is a SCAB union. ALPA National has adopted the scab mentality of there is nothing we can do so lets just take what ever scraps we can get and shut up.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Yes we all do need a laugh.

But just like a previous poster said, the companies can violate the law, win in arbitration or court and the unions have to play by the RLA? Give me a break!

CAL ALPA is a SCAB union. ALPA National has adopted the scab mentality of there is nothing we can do so lets just take what ever scraps we can get and shut up.

Im with ya man, except for jason, tara and tim. Our EWR reps. They will not let us get Rick rolled, scab rolled or whatever you might think. I dont know which side you are on, but i'm extremely comfortable with our EWR representation. I believe they will be the direction for us all. In no way am i sayibg, what they say goes, just that they wont sell us out as past CAL reps (scabs) have.

This is on iphone, spellcheck doesnt work on here.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Why can't the pilot group stage a series of 1-3 day strikes... Oh yeah it's against the RLA..
That's the problem, the company can continuously violate our contract, laugh in our faces, and even kick the dog on the way by... And we can do nothing. It will not be until the BOD feels the pinch via Wall Street, that they will reign in Jeff Lorenzo and make him play nice. That is until he's gone, since he's simply a hired gun

Labor laws and labor courts are kangaroo courts set up by the corporate aristocracy to "legally" obtain what they want. Even when ruled in favor of the union, the company often still get what it wants, with those rulings being doled out to feign the appearance of neutrality.

I know that the name Karl Marx is more profane to most readers than the F-word. Not that I am any fan of communism as it has been politically realized in any of the countries claiming to have the name associated with their form of government past or present, but one should bear in mind that we currently have many "democratic" nations out there that don't seem to bear that mantra correctly either, ours being one of them. Marx stated that the role of Capitalist governments is to promote the appearance of neutrality to the working masses while always working to promote and secure the interest of the wealthy elite. I would refer the reader to the period since the "Reagan" revolution to present and the steady decline of the labor movement, the flat income gain for most Americans vs. the absurd, unimaginable gains of the financial top 10% during that period, and the international outsourcing of the working class evincing this statement. During the period of rapid outsourcing in the 90's, President Clinton also opened the doors on our borders wide open to immigration to keep the pool of lower skilled workers high and drive down the wage demand pressure for those jobs remaining in the US. I doubt he did it for more Democratic party voters as some Republicans insist.

Sorry for the somewhat lengthy and uncomfortable rant, but it is because of these realities that we face, all of us-not just pilots, in this country that I doubt any labor demand of the scale we seek at CAL will prevail. Too much money is at stake, that money is in high places, and that money has financed the careers of those making the decisions on this issue. In simpler terms, the same Harvard, Yale, Berkley, Princeton, Vanderbilt MBA buddies that are the attorneys for both sides also sit in the judge's seat (not to mention most of our national elected officials, with Harvard and Yale dominating the White House since 1988). When it is all over, they will go out, get an over priced beer together, and watch the transaction appear in the offshore account on their laptops. Dim view, but I doubt far from reality.

This being said, I stand by our union, I will strike when called upon. We will undoubtedly get some sort of injunction back to work filed against us(e.g. the grounding of our airline could be stated to be a threat to our national security), and then be found to be violating federal laws if we don't return. As someone else stated, probably the best we can hope for is a compromise to incorporate the larger RJ's commensurate with mainline pilot retirements and furloughee recall promises. Not that such a deal need be strictly followed by United and corporate promises are utterly meaningless given the A-moral demeanor of the Fortune 500 executive. We still have 134 needlessly furloughed CAL pilots and around 1400 UAL pilots to demonstrate that last remark.

 

[Deerkiller]

I'm going to post this again, only because I saw scope busted at my last company by an arbitrator. A scope clause of which ALPA national said was, "rock solid"...

I want our scope defended to the end and yes I would strike over this issue!!!!

I hope I'm wrong but I feel the arbitrator will play it down the middle...
Give the company the scope relief mgmt desires, with the stipulation no CAL pilots will lose there jobs over the issue.. Then reduce the pilot group through retirements.. The outcome 5-10 years later, the airline is half the size with 70-100 seat RJ's being operated by the lowest bidder...

See you on the Picket line!

This is a 70 seat issue. More specifically, an existing 70 seat issue. CAL/UAL mgmt is attempting to transfer existing SkyWest/Republic 70 seaters into the CAL system while moving existing XJT 50 seaters into the UAL system.

71-100 seat jets are not up for discussion in this arbitration. 71-100 are not up for discussion....period.

 

[RT8VA]

Bingo 71 to 100 is what they really want and that isn't allowed by either. Well see how the arbitration goes I have no opinion on what some one else s opinion will turn out.

In the Delta on board magazine a couple months back Richard Anderson was quick to point out how seamless the travel experience was between the regionals and the majors stating that the majors were every thing 100 seats and up. The targets are already drawn it is up to all of us to make sure we hold on tight to our scope. Embraer and Candair aren't drawing up smaller planes just bigger ones.

 

[JUNK YARD DOG]

This is a 70 seat issue. More specifically, an existing 70 seat issue. CAL/UAL mgmt is attempting to transfer existing SkyWest/Republic 70 seaters into the CAL system while moving existing XJT 50 seaters into the UAL system.

71-100 seat jets are not up for discussion in this arbitration. 71-100 are not up for discussion....period.

Once the door is opened... Look out.. It won't be this arbitration, but the next

 

[bluefin]

Once the door is opened... Look out.. It won't be this arbitration, but the next

Can't wait till next time, there will not be a next time.

 

[zonker]

Labor laws and labor courts are kangaroo courts set up by the corporate aristocracy to "legally" obtain what they want. Even when ruled in favor of the union, the company often still get what it wants, with those rulings being doled out to feign the appearance of neutrality.

I know that the name Karl Marx is more profane to most readers than the F-word. Not that I am any fan of communism as it has been politically realized in any of the countries claiming to have the name associated with their form of government past or present, but one should bear in mind that we currently have many "democratic" nations out there that don't seem to bear that mantra correctly either, ours being one of them. Marx stated that the role of Capitalist governments is to promote the appearance of neutrality to the working masses while always working to promote and secure the interest of the wealthy elite. I would refer the reader to the period since the "Reagan" revolution to present and the steady decline of the labor movement, the flat income gain for most Americans vs. the absurd, unimaginable gains of the financial top 10% during that period, and the international outsourcing of the working class evincing this statement. During the period of rapid outsourcing in the 90's, President Clinton also opened the doors on our borders wide open to immigration to keep the pool of lower skilled workers high and drive down the wage demand pressure for those jobs remaining in the US. I doubt he did it for more Democratic party voters as some Republicans insist.

Sorry for the somewhat lengthy and uncomfortable rant, but it is because of these realities that we face, all of us-not just pilots, in this country that I doubt any labor demand of the scale we seek at CAL will prevail. Too much money is at stake, that money is in high places, and that money has financed the careers of those making the decisions on this issue. In simpler terms, the same Harvard, Yale, Berkley, Princeton, Vanderbilt MBA buddies that are the attorneys for both sides also sit in the judge's seat (not to mention most of our national elected officials, with Harvard and Yale dominating the White House since 1988). When it is all over, they will go out, get an over priced beer together, and watch the transaction appear in the offshore account on their laptops. Dim view, but I doubt far from reality.

This being said, I stand by our union, I will strike when called upon. We will undoubtedly get some sort of injunction back to work filed against us(e.g. the grounding of our airline could be stated to be a threat to our national security), and then be found to be violating federal laws if we don't return. As someone else stated, probably the best we can hope for is a compromise to incorporate the larger RJ's commensurate with mainline pilot retirements and furloughee recall promises. Not that such a deal need be strictly followed by United and corporate promises are utterly meaningless given the A-moral demeanor of the Fortune 500 executive. We still have 134 needlessly furloughed CAL pilots and around 1400 UAL pilots to demonstrate that last remark.

Great post. You are exactly right.