landing w/out ceiling

[wood pecker]

For 121 ops can we land without a ceiling from awos? Our sps say yes but only for a visual approach. I rationalize that our SPs our more conservative than the FARs.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Yes. What would you do if its reported as clear?

Just kidding. My answer is yes provided you have the visibility.

 

[Dinger]

Is there no ceiling because awos is not measuring the ceiling correctly? Make sure the awos is not notam'd out of service due to a "missing" ceiling. That would mean that there is no reported wx. Without reported weather you cannot legally use that airport as an IFR destination.

I know there are different wx systems. ASOS, AWOS-1-2-3. Your ops specs lists the acceptable types of reporting systems for 121 IFR. If the AWOS is operating correctly, make sure the type of AWOS is listed in your ops specs. I can't recall all of the different parameters that each type of system measures, but some of them are not acceptable. I know at my last 135 job, we could only use AWOS 3 to substitute for an actual warm body reporting it.

I may be blabbering in the wind and you know all of this stuff, but just in case.............

 

[Snoopy58]

Landing without a ceiling... didn't a 737 do that several years ago in Hawaii?

buh-dum-bum-BAH!

Sorry, it just cried out to be said...

(... and please be sure to tip your waitress!)

 

[dispatchguy]

Plus, dont forget that the reported ceiling is usually irrelevant for domestic US operations, as I cant think of one instrument approach that requires ceiling for the approach; i.e., "CEILING REQUIRED" is printed on the approach plate.

Your own company rules do, however, trump any standards where they are more restrictive than the FARs...

 

[Dinger]

Are we talking about starting an approach, or using this airport as an IFR destination?

If it is for an approach, yes all that is required is visibility. If we want to have this airport as a destination, it needs reported weather.....that includes a ceiling (required because weather is determined by reports, forecasts, or any combination thereof).............I know it doesn't weigh in the consideration for approaches.

 

[wood pecker]

Thanks for your input. We were flying to our destination but tower had closed leaving behind an awos that was not reporting the ceiling. We contacted the recomended center and they did not know why the ceiling was missing. ( No notams).

We slowed down, contacted dispatch and dusted off our manuals. The SPs allowed the ceiling to be missing for a visual approach only and for VFR departure. The vis was 10sm and we could see the airport 50 miles out and landed.

I consulted the chief pilot the next day and he agreed w/ our decsion stating the SPs allowed us to legally land VFR which equals clean underwear and no NASA report.