Lance CA?

[dispatchguy]

While looking through some of the SWA documents in the SWA 1248 NTSB docket, I came across in Document 347681 a revision to the SWA FOM.

On p. 3.1.7 it sez

Assume, secondarily, all responsibilities of the CA. Should the CA become incapacitated during flight, assume command of the aircraft. If another Southwest Airlines CA or Lance CA is onboard, they should subsequently take command of the aircraft, depending on the circumstances.

WTH is a Lance Captain? The snack food company is all I can think of...

 

[viper548]

It's a captain qualified first officer

 

[viper548]

...or an Ameriflight pilot that flies the Piper Lance

 

[maxblast72]

Just curious, do most of the Southwest FO's see the Lance Captain program as good or bad? I assume the intent of the program is to actually have less full time Captains than needed and just draw upon the Lance Captains when pilot staffing requirements are higher. Basically using the hard working nature of the typical Southwest pilot to keep costs down.

Is this something that will to continue to be in future Southwest contracts or something that will go away so more guys will be upgraded to full Captain status?

 

[StopNTSing]

Just curious, do most of the Southwest FO's see the Lance Captain program as good or bad? I assume the intent of the program is to actually have less full time Captains than needed and just draw upon the Lance Captains when pilot staffing requirements are higher. Basically using the hard working nature of the typical Southwest pilot to keep costs down.

Is this something that will to continue to be in future Southwest contracts or something that will go away so more guys will be upgraded to full Captain status?

Good questions, all.

I think most of the pilots here think the Lance program is a good thing. If you are at one of the more senior bases and absolutely don't want to commute, it's a good alternative to the upgrade-into-a-lousy-commute scenario. The intent of the program from way back when was to have a stash of captain-ready pilots to meet the growth surges the company would experience in the early years. Since we are obviously no longer in that mode :crying:, I have heard our previous VP Flt Ops say the company would be just as happy to get rid of the program. Who knows if it will survive this next contract.

 

[GuppyWN]

Lance captains are one reason why we have so much flexibility in our schedules. They pick up the scraps and junk that other captains give away. That then creates gaps in the giveaway captains schedule which allows him incredible flexibility to shift around his schedule or to then pick up other extra flying - either from the company or other pilots, which creates even MORE flexibility.

Gup

 

[maxblast72]

Thanks for the input guys. Just another way Southwest doesn't follow the herd and finds creative ways to continue making money while they grow.

I hope our new union leadership can find some creative ways to do some things that can benefit both us and the company.

 

[BobbyB]

To specifically answer the question, the top 8% (I think) of the F/O's in a domicile are sent to captain upgrade and are qualified as captains. They bid as F/O's, fly as F/O's, and are nothing but F/O's for monthly bidding, vacation, disablity pay, and everything else. They DO have the opportunity to fly as a captain anywhere they can find the work. If they can give away their F/O trips, they have the chance to pick up an entire month of Captain trips at appropriate captain pay rates for their longevity. So a lance who's been at SWA for 7 years gets paid as a 7yr F/O for his F/O trips and as a 7yr capt for any capt trips he can pick up.

The downside is that if you don't fly much as a captain, you still have to pass 2 capt checkrides per year, AND your annual F/O checkride.

 

[Trogdor]

I was a Lance captain for Ram.

 

[wscrj]

There is/has been a similar program here at AS, but it is not part of the new TA we're working on. As these guys bid over to CA full time, they will not be replaced.

Not sure of out "Senior Qual'd" guys have the same flexibility as their WN counterparts, but me thinks not....

 

[tomgoodman]

Lance CAs and FOs

Years ago, Delta had a second-qualification program called the "dual pool". The problem was that you only flew in the higher seat when scheduling ran out of reserves, causing a real lack of proficiency, especially if your "normal" seat was on a different airplane type. Sometimes both pilots were "dual pools"! They eventually replaced this program with "green slips" (premium pay), to cover reserve shortages.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

It allows management to run lean on the CA seat. Why pay a guy a full year's salary, benefits and contributions at CA rates when you only need him 6-8 months a year?

The FOs that end up taking it think it's a good deal, when in the long run, it is not.

from the outside and imho...

 

[GuppyWN]

Good deal? Hell yeah. I kept me from sitting straight reserve as a cappy and allowed me to be more flexible with my line.

It's a win win.

Gup

 

[Chest Rockwell]

It is likely to go away in the future as the long-awaited 9 month training cycle comes into play. At present, there is no provision for a lance type arrangement in the recurrent training and checking directives for this new program (that is likely 18-24 months away). The FAA is likely to restrict any such program because one of the benefits of the 9 month cycle is seat crew specific training and checking.

 

[swaflyguy]

I've been a lance for a year and a half. If I bid Captain in my domicile I would hold 4 day weekend reserve or possibly a vr line. Still working weekends and definately every holiday. . I am Phx based which is relatively senior. I could bid a captain in vegas and be at about 55-60% seniority. I am able to hold turn lines in phx and therefore usually am able to give away my entire schedule. I pick up captains trips through give away or Extra fly. I never work weekends except on rare occasions, never work a holiday. I get good vacation weeks and fly between 80-100 captain trips a month. you do have to do a lot of work on the computer but my QOL is much better and the pay is about the same as a line holding captain. If i wanted to fly alot I could easily get 120-130 trips a month. Fortunately, I have a life outside of SWA and dont care to work that much. Last year I blocked 690 hours and got paid the equivalent of 1100 trips at captains pay. i like the lance captain program alot. just my .02 worth.