Lack of professionalism

[say again]

My salary is well above market value based on type of A/C and location. I negotiated what I believe I should be paid, not what other people are making. My new employer agreed.

 

[airmack]

Exactly, your worth is determined by the market, not by what you think you *should* be paid, or whether you wear a white shirt to work at a blue collar trade.

It is intersting to note that most would agree that compensation is dragged down far more by pilots who actually pay companies to fly in thier airplanes on revenue flights, like Airmack did at Gulfstream; far more than it is dragged down by some guy using ebay to advertise contract pilot services.

I guess that irony isn't Airmack's strong suit.

I bet you won't find many Journeyman plumbers who will pay a company $20,000 to install heating systems for 6 months. If you're paying a company to work for them, it's not a profession, it's not even a trade, it's a hobby.

ERJMECH, do you have many A&P mechanics paying companies to wrench on thier airplanes? I'm guessing not.

Thank you Airmack for making the worth of a pilot, as determined by the market place, just a little bit less by having paid a company to fly thier airplanes in revenue service. You are truly a shining example of the professionalism of which you speak so loudly.

You seem to know all the answers. I would strongly suggest you get your facts straight before your spout off mindless remarks. Just because you can hide behind your screen name doesn't mean your LEGALLY protected.

 

[The_Russian]

Airmack,

Just a word of advice.....

Try not to spout off at people and expect them to respond with less than a firm slap in the face. Trust me, it doesn't go over well on this board. I once posted in such a manner. It doesn't pay off.

Please don't threaten folks with "the law" on here, its just not cool.

 

[A Squared]

You seem to know all the answers.

Translation: *I* don't have any answers, which is why I fall back on insults and threats instead of discussing the issues.

I would strongly suggest you get your facts straight before your (sic) spout off mindless remarks. Just because you can hide behind your screen name doesn't mean your (sic) LEGALLY protected.

Ummmm, ok. Let me get this straight. You're threatening me with legal action for pointing out the rather obvious fact that having paid to "work" for Gulfstream cheapens the "profession" (At least in the opinion of the majority of pilots) ??????

You can't really be this immature, are you? Seriously? Musta hurt your feelings to make you threaten me with legal action. You haven't done anything but make youself look silly (er). What specific action do you intend to bring against me? (This should be entertaining)

 

[A Squared]

Russian,

Good post, comrade. I take back some of the bad things I said about you.

 

[AC560]

IMHO the plumbers have a better union.......

Plumbers also have much more stringent requirements in terms of training and work requirements in order to be a plumber. In order to drastically increase airline pay the barrier to entry has to be raised substantially. ALPA would be better served lobbying Congress to increase requirements for aviators then lobbying airlines for pay raises. Shrink the supply and the pay will come.

My 2 cents anyways.

 

[svcta]

Oh, pulleeease don't fall back on that silly "I risk my life" fantasy. Being an airline pilot is a pretty safe occupation. Besides, that has nothing to do with how much you get paid. If risk was a determining factor, Farm workers would get paid a lot more. By that rationale, I should get paid more than you, as there are more risks associated with flying half-century old radial engined planes in Alaska than flying your Airbus. If I decide I don't care for the risks, I can always move on.

For what it's worth:

CNN/Money 2005(work year 2004) most dangerous jobs in terms of deaths per 100,000 workers:

1. Logging workers (92.4 per 100K)
2. Aircraft Pilots (also 92.4 per 100K) a tie
3. Fishers and fishing workers (86.4 per 100K)

Same source, for 2006(work year 2005):

1. Fisherman (118.4 per 100K)
2. Loggers (90.2 per 100K)
3. Pilots (66.9 per 100K)- we had a better year, but still checked in in the top 3

And according to FORBES for 2007(work year 2006):

1. Fishing/related activities (142 per 100K)
2. Pilots- (88 per 100K)
3. Loggers (82 Per 100K)

Going back to 2003(as far back as I've chosen to look) pilots are still in the top 3.

I don't want to step in to the other arguments presented here, but you, Asquared, called someone out for being ignorant of the factors involved in the plumbing biz. Well, these facts are rather alarming, no? We do, in fact, have a dangerous job.

 

[FirstMate]

I have to disagree somewhat.

Being an airline pilot is not a dangerous job, at least not in North America. I can think of other jobs in the States that result in more fatalities than those involving airline pilots. Shoot, the US goes for years at times without having a fatal commercial airline crash.
I'd like to know if it is "airline" pilots that are being referred to in the statistics you found. Maybe the numbers are including bush pilots or guys running checks, pipeline patrol, banner tows??

Not sure how well bush pilots are compensated, but the other avenues mentioned are relatively low pay and always have been. From what I've skimmed over on this thread, the argument has to do somewhat with the correlation between professionalism and pay in the airline industry...at least thats what Airmack seems to be frustrated with.

 

[A Squared]

For what it's worth:

CNN/Money 2005(work year 2004) most dangerous jobs in terms of deaths per 100,000 workers:

1. Logging workers (92.4 per 100K)
2. Aircraft Pilots (also 92.4 per 100K) a tie
3. Fishers and fishing workers (86.4 per 100K)

Same source, for 2006(work year 2005):

1. Fisherman (118.4 per 100K)
2. Loggers (90.2 per 100K)
3. Pilots (66.9 per 100K)- we had a better year, but still checked in in the top 3

And according to FORBES for 2007(work year 2006):

1. Fishing/related activities (142 per 100K)
2. Pilots- (88 per 100K)
3. Loggers (82 Per 100K)

Going back to 2003(as far back as I've chosen to look) pilots are still in the top 3.

I don't want to step in to the other arguments presented here, but you, Asquared, called someone out for being ignorant of the factors involved in the plumbing biz. Well, these facts are rather alarming, no? We do, in fact, have a dangerous job.

Right I am very well aware of those statistics and I have looked into them previously, including examining the source data from the Bureau of Labor statistics. (that's where Forbes gets it's numbers) Here's a couple of threads in which these statistics have been discussed:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=60787&highlight=fatalities

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=84436&highlight=fatalities

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=91934&highlight=fatalities

I don't have time to get into it in depth at the moment, but just briefly:

1) I said *airline* pilot, not "pilot in general". the vast majority of the deaths occur in other than airline flying.

2) as low as the numbers are for *airline* pilot occupational fatalities, it appears that they are wildly inaccurate. The numbers that the BLS reports for *airline* pilot fatalities do not match the fatal airline accidents by a long, long shot. Unless there’s a lot of pilots dying in crew bus accidents, the BLS numbers are just wrong. Period.


Think about it, we all know that airline flying is the safest method of travel that exists, yet *piloting* airliners is one of the most dangerous occupations? Doesn't add up, does it?


Bottom line: I am not at all ignorant of the statistics you mention, and *airline* piloting is a very, very safe occupation.

 

[FirstMate]

Not to stray away from the topic here, but ASquared, what do kind of flying do you do with the -6? Always thought it was a cool rig.