Labor costs

[bvt1151]

Right now Comair and ASA are both operating at a lower CASM than Delta.

How big do the planes have to be?

 

[Heavy Set]

bvt1151,

Well, just ask AirTran how big the airplanes have to be - at least 100 seats...

Sure, there will always be a place for RJs - on non-LCC, hub-connecting routes like ATL-HPN, ATL-DSM or SLC-Bozeman where you can still charge a premium. Let's leave it at that...

XREMFLYER,

I agree with Six, I think the General is pretty informative and very supportive of the Delta furloughees - that's a good thing.

 

[bvt1151]

you guys crack me up.

Air Tran didn't keep the RJ's, so they must be bad...
(Air tran uses ALL RJ's. They tried a fee for departure with 50-seaters as connecters...tisk tisk. RJ's are not low-fare connecters, rather low-fare point to point)

Southwest doesn't fly RJ's so they must be bad...
(They've expressed long-term interest in RJ's. Fortunately for Southwest they're more interested in their well-demonstrated slow growth philosiphy. Many more markets available for the 737 when they're going against the legacies.)

Delta's problems are due to the RJ...
(simple math...which aircraft are operating in the black? RJ's and 767-400's. Unfortunately for every dollar made on a 767-400, three dollars was spent connecting on smaller aircraft. RJ's are the only aircraft profitably connecting in the Delta system. RJ's or not, large hub operations maximize cost per revenue unit.)

Passengers don't like flying on the RJ...
(Didn't they say the same thing about Southwest when they started? Low costs, and multiple hubs are great for operational performance, and the passengers don't mind sitting through it for $20 less. Besides, the RJ has no middle seats, and the same seat width and pitch as the rest of Delta's fleet.)


Waiting for the next excuse...

 

[General Lee]

bvt1151,

The only thing you have to know here is what Grinstein---your ultimate boss---said in the latest "Jerry's Kids" meeting---this one in SLC. He stated that our "loyal" passengers shouldn't have to endure RJ flights over 2 hours---that it was "hard" on them. He said we depend too much on RJs, and that he will review this in his strategic review. When asked what we should do next--he said we needed to standardize the fleet, and he said that the RJs were a "short term fix." He noted that there is room for some sort of 100 seater, and when asked if DCI would fly them, he stated, "I can't see DCI flying them."

It sounds like your boss (and mine) doesn't think RJs are the answer. (especially for flights over 2 hours) Hmmmmm. How are you going to rebutt this one? Could he have been just telling us "what we wanted to hear?" Maybe---or maybe not. How's that for an excuse? Your boss thinks they are a short term fix.......I am waiting for your response......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

General,

You're agreeing with me. I'm not saying what Delta will do, I'm saying what Delta should do.

Unfortunately as promising as Grinstein is, he's off the mark on this one. His comments sound way too pre-deregulationesque.

The passengers have already shown they're willing to endure the RJ's for more frequency, lower fares, and less Atlanta; for the same reasons passengers are willing to endure Southwest's 737's and Airtran's 717's...both with smaller seats (either width or pitch) than a CRJ.

 

[Heavy Set]

RJs play a vital role...

I am not arguing about the ultimate need for RJs - clearly they play a role in hub-connecting feed. I think any route less than 2 hours from a hub makes sense so long as there is zero LCC competition...

I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that flights over 2 hours on an RJ (especially the CRJ) are very uncomfortable - particularly for business travelers who might want to use laptops, etc.

RJs play a vital role in terms of hub-connecting feed from small-to-mid sized cities 2 hours or less from the hub. You need to respect the feelings (and wallets) of the passengers beyond 2 hours... Seems like Grinstein understands the situation better than we think.

 

[bvt1151]

You're missing the point...

RJ's are horrible connectors on flights shorter than 500 miles. A turboprop is much more economical for those. RJ's were made for long thin routes...just like the 7E7. Grinstein is talking about limiting the RJ within the range of its greatest weakness.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that flights over 2 hours on an RJ (especially the CRJ) are very uncomfortable - particularly for business travelers who might want to use laptops, etc.

As opposed to the spacious coach seats in the back of the bigger planes?

 

[mnboyev]

If you pay a little more... wouldnt you expect a little more room and comfort ? ie ... flying the big D jets as opposed to a high density 717 or tight RJ.... ??

Just a question... ? Not too sure about that MBA stuff... CASM... I thought RJ's were more expensive to operate...

I hear the majors are looking to distance themselves from the wholly owned deal ?

 

[bvt1151]

Just a question... ? Not too sure about that MBA stuff... CASM... I thought RJ's were more expensive to operate...

They should be. Its an economy of scale, however Delta's costs are so out of wack that the RJ's are actually cheaper per unit cost...and yes, contrary to what you'll most likely hear next, all RJ casm's include RJ financing while mainline casm's do not include the RJ debt.